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WBGV OP
Jun 06, 2024 at 11:15 AM ET
The latest on Florida State, ACC, Clemson lawsuits
By Matt BakerTimes staff / Published May 31|Updated Yesterday “The latest (June 5, 2024): Clemson’s case against the ACC in South Carolina appears to have a hearing set for July 12. I haven’t seen that show up in South Carolina court records. But it’s included an updated filing in North Carolina (where the league has sued Clemson).” A motion for summary judgement on a declaration that the ACC only owns Clemson’s broadcast rights for games played while the Tigers are in the ACC would be a significant development in conference realignment. If the South Carolina judge rules that Clemson’s position is correct, then it is possible that an official notice to withdraw from the ACC could be issued within days regardless of the likelihood of the ACC appealing the decision. FSU would almost certainly follow Clemson’s lead within weeks if not days.

30 Replies

E
EDGEMAN
If that's the case, the GOR is useless.
wwhokie1 wwhokie1
If that's the case, sounds like all GOR's are useless. Big if
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lawhokie
No, I think this hinges on the wording of the ACC GOR
We can’t assume every GOR in college athletics is identical.
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VTCALS72
Yeah, we pretty much can as the GOR framework is what ESPN wanted
That covers just about everybody. I found it interesting that there was all this uproar about the ACC holding the media contract in their secure location then it seems every one of the former P5 did the same. 2nd point, if it was "different" then the other 3 conferences would not have joined the "keep it secret" lawsuit.
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lawhokie
That’s a huge leap
I am not sure what the ‘keep it secret’ lawsuits are, I just haven’t followed this very closely. However, I am familiar with contract law in general. The ACC GOR is an agreement among conference members. How did outside parties join in a litigation specifically with respect to the ACC GOR (not the ESPN deal)? How would any other conference have standing to join wrt to an ACC agreement?
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VTCALS72
FSU and Clemson are trying to make it much bigger than just the GOR
And have petitioned to have the ACC/ESPN media deal essentially be made public. The other leagues in some manner joined the ACC in asking that the ACC/ESPN media deal not be made public under the auspice of revealing one contract would reveal them all.
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lawhokie
But not the GOR? I still don’t see standing there.
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VTCALS72
As I understand it, the making public of the ACC media deal
would adversely affect the SEC, Big and B12 because the deal are essentially the same. So their participation is not the GOR it is protecting the privacy of their agreements with ESPN/Fox
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2hhoop3
He is confusing......
the GOR with the media rights agreement. The other conferences were protecting disclosure of their media deals. Additionally, the GOR only applies to the ACC and Big 12. Both the SEC and B1G at present have very limited need to worry about their members looking for greener pastures.
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VTCALS72
Do you really think that a SC or FLA judge would end it for the ACC?
That has no more chance of happening than a NC judge ending it for Clemson, FSU with a declaratory judgement that the GOR means ACC ownership of rights through 2036. This is getting more like the PAC saga except it is 2 schools rather than a conference trying to dictate to big media what they are going to do while still under contract.
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WBGV OP
I do believe that a judge from Pickens County, SC
where Clemson is located will find that Clemson’s interpretation of the GOR is correct. And once they have that ruling, Clemson will likely announce their exit from the conference. FSU will likely follow. The ACC will still exist at that point and of course an appeal will be filed. I also don’t think that Clemson is going to pay the exit fee claiming that the financial penalties involved with the ACC's exit fee (three times the ACC's operating budget) are exorbitant and unreasonable. That exit fee will have to be litigated before Clemson and/or FSU or any other school pays anything. In the past, major conference exits fees have been reduced significantly to avoid or end litigation (examples: Maryland, Texas, Oklahoma, etc.) ** Edited by WBGV at 6/6/2024, 1:29:32 PM
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lawhokie
I think the judge will follow the law…
Judges HATE to be reversed on appeal, especially judges from hick jurisdictions that get little respect from appellate courts. MSJ requires every fact at issue to construed in favor of non-movant, and the case must still be a clear win for movant. That means the contract wording must be clear with zero nuance.
E
EDGEMAN
That doesn't bother some corrupt judges.
Just saying...
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VTCALS72
And I do know that MD was better prepared than the ACC but FSU/Cu are not
I do not believe any of that "exorbitant" stuff will stand in court either, What somebody else did in getting their horse out of the barn has been corrected. Is there a worse thing for FSU/CU to do that get out before they know the real cost of doing so?
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Big12 guy
They do not know the cost of leaving - it's why
they are in court. They do know the cost of staying, and seems to be untenable to them.
Maroon Baboon Maroon Baboon
Agree. That's why all this talk from FSU homers about
"FSU will be gone by June 30" or "FSU will be in the Big Ten in 2025" or even "there's no turning back now" is a bunch of malarkey. If the price is right, they will leave, if not, they won't. Ditto for Clemson.
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2hhoop3
What do you believe........
the Maryland case shows? How about the Texas and OKlahoma cases? If you actually look deeper at those cases I think you will find there are significant differences between the FSU and Clemson situations and those you refer to.
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WBGV OP
I believe that there is a reasonable argument that the ACC exit fees
are exorbitant and unreasonable when compared to the exit fees of other conferences and what has been paid in the past. Now with that said, a judge could find that the fees are reasonable, but Clemson and FSU will likely litigate the exit fee before paying it. ** Edited by WBGV at 6/6/2024, 1:51:00 PM
2
2hhoop3
None of the cases you cited.....
found the fees exorbitant or unreasonable and their resolutions came on different grounds. The current fees were established and, more importantly, agreed to in processes designed to comply with previously established court precedents. Clemson and FSU are entitled to litigate to their heart's desire and the courts will decide absent an earlier settlement that likely only comes about with a lot of money from somewhere. Moreover, it would seem likely any new landing spot prior to the resolution of the legal cases will come with an entirely different set of concerns, somewhat akin to looking to marry someone before their previous divorce is final.
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WBGV OP
There is no marriage being discussed here, only the divorce.
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mjfhokie
Which would be then subject to the terms of the pre-nup (i.e. GOR)?
HokieAl HokieAl
Except the GOR has no connection to the exit fees
The exit fees are just an internal condition of leaving the ACC that was established within the conference. It doesn't have any connection with the media contract or the GOR. ** Edited by HokieAl at 6/6/2024, 5:24:08 PM
Maroon Baboon Maroon Baboon
An annulment then? 🤷
You act like FSU and Clemson didn't sign anything. 🤣 ** Edited by Maroon Baboon at 6/6/2024, 6:38:35 PM
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2hhoop3
Cute........
but, like your previous response not really relevant to the questions asked.
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33laszlo99
The exit fees are liquidated damages. By definition, these fees are rough
estimates because actual damages are elusive, at best. So the parties agree in advance to accept this estimate. Still could be litigated, but you can't just look at them and say they're excessive.
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WBGV OP
You can say it and that is exactly what Clemson and FSU have done.
Now whether they can convince a court that they are excessive and unreasonable is another matter.
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lawhokie
Unless we have a rogue judge, that’s not the kind of decision for msj
It’s also difficult for sophisticated parties to argue, particularly after operating under an agreement and re-upping on the deal. The cold, hard fact for Clemson and FSU is that there is almost no incentive to negotiate here. Reducing the exit fee by half on settlement does not mean that much to each remaining school, but it means a LOT to the two plaintiffs. So why not drag it out and let plaintiffs sweat?
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33laszlo99
One good reason could come into view in Feb '25.
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33laszlo99
UMD tried to make the case that the exit fee was punitive. Every litigant
attacks from the best angle they find.
B
Big12 guy
Big media doesn't own their rights, the ACC does. it's the only
conclusion since the media contract with the ACC is not available for interpretation by the fans. Personally, I don't think any conference or team dictates anything to the media companies.