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2hhoop3
Founder Subscriber

You are correct....

that the negotiator knows the value of their product but, more importantly, they know the leverage they have and the way that leverage can be used to get the other side to agree. I think you have grossly misinterpreted what happened with the Big 12. I do not believe the product was undervalued. The Big12 did have ample leverage with the UT/OU situation from a litigation perspective and with the PAC 12 situation from a cooperation perspective to help both SEC/ESPN and FOX/B1G achieve their goals, the compensation for which resulted in a far better contract than previous value implied or warranted. As far as your other ramblings about the ACC and ESPN with regard to term and leverage I think you misinterpret that as well. When more details come out the motivations and leverages will likely become clearer. The fact is both FSU and Clemson wanted/demanded a network and they likely in their quest for that network made concessions. Buyer's remorse is not justification for a lawsuit although that belief is becoming more and more prevalent. You claim the fact ESPN wanted to lock the deal in for a long period showed they believed it advantageous but, you do not afford the ACC the same belief. Hindsight clarifies who may be right or wrong in their thinking but, it does not confirm the belief in thinking at the time the deal is negotiated. Moreover, until more specifics regarding lookins, adjustments, etc. become public knowledge, conclusions are little more than WAGS. You would be well served to think not only about what you believe but, what you really know based on publicly available information.
Posted: 07/24/2024 at 12:30 PM ET
(In response to this post by wwhokie1)

Thread Replies (72)

Full Thread →
Jim Phillips presentation today was perhaps the best I've seen from him
HOO86 • 07/22/24 06:39 PM ET
The problem is he didn't get aggressive until that aggression was aimed at
wwhokie1 • 07/24/24 02:18 PM ET
You're right.......
2hhoop3 • 07/24/24 02:29 PM ET
A rebuttal for consideration
HokieAl • 07/23/24 02:25 PM ET
I agree with every bit of that. I'm not a Phillips hater. He took over
reestuart • 07/24/24 09:08 AM ET
Agree on all counts.**
Maroon Baboon • 07/23/24 05:22 PM ET
Was the ACC late and slow or was it ESPN?
VTCALS72 • 07/23/24 04:44 PM ET
It was ESPN, but it was also those in the ACC responsible for negotiating
wwhokie1 • 07/23/24 05:04 PM ET
there's no way to know how involved other networks were, but it seemed
reestuart • 07/24/24 09:22 AM ET
Don't forget about Chad Swofford's raycom deal**
ren_hoek • 07/23/24 09:13 PM ET
If that is true, all the difference maker negotiators are in the P2
VTCALS72 • 07/23/24 06:24 PM ET
That's why we're currently on the outside looking in**
wwhokie1 • 07/23/24 09:12 PM ET
So you think there really was anything the ACC, or Big 12 or PAC before
VTCALS72 • 07/23/24 09:18 PM ET
Nothing we could have done that would have made us equal with the P2, but
wwhokie1 • 07/23/24 09:39 PM ET
Question, aren't your "milestones" the same as the ESPN "Look in"
VTCALS72 • 07/24/24 06:56 AM ET
I'm not sure anybody understands fully the ESPN look in. But it doesn't
wwhokie1 • 07/24/24 09:51 AM ET
It's not what I feel about the ACC, it is what ESPN felt
VTCALS72 • 07/24/24 12:21 PM ET
That was exactly the problem and the point I am making. The attitude that
wwhokie1 • 07/24/24 01:37 PM ET
The problem is.......
2hhoop3 • 07/24/24 10:06 AM ET
It is the responsibility of the negotiator to know the value of the product
wwhokie1 • 07/24/24 12:02 PM ET
You are correct.... ◄
2hhoop3 • 07/24/24 12:30 PM ET
No doubt ACC would be so much better off
SpeakToDamien • 07/23/24 03:56 PM ET
Your rebuttal needs more context........
2hhoop3 • 07/23/24 03:00 PM ET
Swofford and ACCs big white whale - Notre Dame
mjfhokie • 07/23/24 10:22 AM ET
Of all the pipedreams (ND) to put so many chips on and whiff. It
TDVick • 07/27/24 11:13 PM ET
The lesson is: if a big white whale swims by, enjoy the view but don't
wwhokie1 • 07/24/24 02:20 PM ET
What has ND signed to say they will join the ACC
VTCALS72 • 07/23/24 01:39 PM ET
Part of the deal with the ACC in 2016
Victor Tango • 07/23/24 02:10 PM ET
Has anyone read this ND deal?
TerryD • 07/24/24 07:46 AM ET
I feel like this "deal" was an imaginary pipe dream by delusional leader-
VPI_1998 • 07/24/24 08:59 AM ET
No, but here is an old Dennis Dodd article mentioning the agreement
Victor Tango • 07/24/24 08:56 AM ET
I agree on the basis of Phillips and Integrity
PFHokie • 07/23/24 07:03 AM ET
But we (VT) would jump into the B1G if given the chance. Talk about
133193Hokie • 07/23/24 02:48 PM ET
How about if they are the front, to get more money from ESPN for the ACC?
Stech • 07/23/24 07:09 AM ET
I'm not willing to give the ACC enough credit for being that shrewd.
wwhokie1 • 07/23/24 10:41 AM ET
What has happened is way above the heads of the Big 12, PAC or ACC
VTCALS72 • 07/23/24 01:44 PM ET
That might be right, but at this point, all the theories are just guesses.
Stech • 07/23/24 11:14 AM ET
It's not just you, but it's certainly the exception. **
wwhokie1 • 07/23/24 01:52 PM ET
Agreed, especially in this day and time.**
Stech • 07/23/24 06:53 PM ET
I've felt that Clemson might actually be doing the heavy lifting
obguthr • 07/23/24 10:39 AM ET
That's another plausible theory, but I lean if that is happening, FSU was
Stech • 07/23/24 11:11 AM ET
It's an expensive legal ruse for them and the ACC if that is the plan.**
Victor Tango • 07/23/24 08:41 AM ET
Could be, but it also could increase the pay enough to make it worth it, my
Stech • 07/23/24 11:09 AM ET
Just read these boards to see the Swofford venom. Deserved or not, it's
ancient alien 2018 • 07/22/24 09:03 PM ET
In my opinion Swofford more than deserves all the venom coming his way
VPI_1998 • 07/24/24 07:14 AM ET
Reminds me of the NHL. Poor Gary Bettman gets boo’d everywhere.
OrlandoHokie • 07/22/24 11:34 PM ET
I know, but think Jim Phillips is referring to the lawsuits.
HOO86 • 07/22/24 11:19 PM ET
Everybody liked the long-term GOR deal when it was signed.
wwhokie1 • 07/22/24 11:18 PM ET
Swofford catches grief primarily because of several things:
RJHokie • 07/22/24 07:30 PM ET
Uhh...how about the conference of misfit toys dictating to the ACC?
Techsupport • 07/23/24 09:44 AM ET
All you guys posting stuff like the ACC actually had a chance to be on
VTCALS72 • 07/23/24 02:40 PM ET
We should sure as hell be above the B12, THATS the point.**
Techsupport • 07/23/24 02:55 PM ET
How are we not?
VTCALS72 • 07/23/24 04:41 PM ET
B12 is on verge of a very big deal**
Techsupport • 07/24/24 08:22 AM ET
Are they not?.......
2hhoop3 • 07/23/24 03:14 PM ET
You are a better conference. You have elite academic institutions,
Big12 guy • 07/23/24 03:05 PM ET
The ACC had their chance to take anybody they wanted from the Big 12.
wwhokie1 • 07/23/24 10:37 AM ET
3rd or 4th doesn't matter much as payout will pretty much equal out
VTCALS72 • 07/23/24 02:47 PM ET
That is only half of how dumb that was.
Truthahn • 07/23/24 11:32 AM ET
Agree, the Big 12 breaking up would have been preferable to the pac-12**
wwhokie1 • 07/23/24 01:51 PM ET
I think that KU would have preferred the ACC over the PAC - hands down. **
Big12 guy • 07/23/24 11:48 AM ET
I'm not sure being #3 is a prize here, unless we can find
Big12 guy • 07/23/24 11:02 AM ET
Number three is better than number four, however, in this case not by much.
wwhokie1 • 07/23/24 01:49 PM ET
Sounds like "PAC" 202**
Big12 guy • 07/23/24 10:12 AM ET
Excellent post. He looks really bad. When you factor in the double
TDVick • 07/23/24 03:49 AM ET
would you not agree that the ACC is still standing
VTCALS72 • 07/23/24 08:01 AM ET
I agree **
HokiesACC2004 • 07/24/24 07:00 AM ET
Totally agree RJHokie, all are very valid points !**
FLKEYSHOKIE • 07/22/24 10:07 PM ET
Sounds like he did a good job today**
Vippie1 • 07/22/24 06:47 PM ET
David Teel saw what I saw.
HOO86 • 07/22/24 08:48 PM ET
Subscriber only unfortunately.**
VTChip • 07/22/24 11:31 PM ET
Subscription Required**
Marooned • 07/22/24 09:38 PM ET
Richond Paper. Sorry.
HOO86 • 07/22/24 11:54 PM ET