That was exactly the problem and the point I am making. The attitude that
ESPN had a huge advantage. that attitude allows ESPN to win the negotiations. The deal with the ACC and the ACC Network has made ESPN a lot of money. Where is the huge advantage for ESPN in the negotiations? Both sides stood to make a lot of money. But because the ACC allowed themselves to be desparate, and consider themselves weak, ESPN took us to the cleaners. I don't know how much more was available for the ACC, But there were several avenues to make the deal more ACC friendly, both financially and regarding future look-ins. ESPN has the chance to walk from the deal, while the ACC is stuck in the deal for 20 years. Huge advantage for ESPN. Again, the ACC was going to make ESPN a boatload of money, maybe not as much as the SEC, but ESPN gains profits, a lot of profits. The ACC Network was not a bad deal for ESPN. It was a good deal, a really good deal. That is leverage for the ACC. ESPN wanted the ACC Network because it was going to make them lots of money. Every indication I have heard implies ESPN basically got what they wanted. We all have believed that the ACC negotiated from a position of weakness, but much of that was self-imposed.
The ACC had a lot to offer. Especially, when you look long term, and remember the contract was for 20 years. What was going to happen to our top teams over that period. They were not going to stay down. Every year the media annoucnes that Miami is back, they never are, but that shows the national reputation of Miami. That is "value". UNC is heralded as the most valuable program for expansion by many. I disagree, but that is name recognition and value. FSU and Clemson, though up and down are major programs with national name recognition - lots of "value". VT was still looked at as a valuable national commodity at the time of the ESPN deal. ACC had a lot to offer. Throw in that we were still the top name in college basketball. And also remember that at the time the financial difference between the ACC and the BIG and SEC was much smaller and expected to close even more with the ACC Network, therefore the ACC's future was even brighter. The ACC Network was expected to allow us to compete at a level near the top of college football - lots of future value. Around the time of the signing of the deal in 2016 the ACC won three national championships in football from 2013 - 2018, 50% of the championships. The ACC was not so weak. Yes, it had it's problems but it also had a lot of strengths and potential. When you are negotiating you have to see and point out that value. You are not selling the previous 5 years of ACC performance, you are selling the future 20 years of a conference with some strong programs. Oh yes, throw in the ND deal.
With the deals the SEC, BIG and Big 12 are signing, the ACC with FSU and Clemson is clearly underpaid. In hindsight the media deal was to the advantage of ESPN. Do you really think ESPN did not know that at the time? I don't think so! I think they knew what a good deal it was for them, and so they tried to make it as long as possible. What business signs a 20 year deal, unless they are convinced it is good for them. Of course they wrote in an out for themselves. Of course the ACC also signed a 20 year deal, but they did so out of desparation and giving in to the demands of ESPN that wanted it to run 20 years. The ACC was outsmarted in the negotiations, and future results reflect that.
** Edited by wwhokie1 at 7/24/2024, 1:40:03 PM
** Edited by wwhokie1 at 7/24/2024, 1:43:07 PM
Thread Replies (72)
Jim Phillips presentation today was perhaps the best I've seen from him
-- HOO86
Jul 22, 2024 at 06:39 PM ET
HOO86
•
07/22/24 06:39 PM ET
The problem is he didn't get aggressive until that aggression was aimed at
-- wwhokie1
Jul 24, 2024 at 02:18 PM ET
wwhokie1
•
07/24/24 02:18 PM ET
I agree with every bit of that. I'm not a Phillips hater. He took over
-- reestuart
Jul 24, 2024 at 09:08 AM ET
reestuart
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07/24/24 09:08 AM ET
Agree on all counts.**
-- Maroon Baboon
Jul 23, 2024 at 05:22 PM ET
Maroon Baboon
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07/23/24 05:22 PM ET
Was the ACC late and slow or was it ESPN?
-- VTCALS72
Jul 23, 2024 at 04:44 PM ET
VTCALS72
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07/23/24 04:44 PM ET
It was ESPN, but it was also those in the ACC responsible for negotiating
-- wwhokie1
Jul 23, 2024 at 05:04 PM ET
wwhokie1
•
07/23/24 05:04 PM ET
there's no way to know how involved other networks were, but it seemed
-- reestuart
Jul 24, 2024 at 09:22 AM ET
reestuart
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07/24/24 09:22 AM ET
Don't forget about Chad Swofford's raycom deal**
-- ren_hoek
Jul 23, 2024 at 09:13 PM ET
ren_hoek
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07/23/24 09:13 PM ET
If that is true, all the difference maker negotiators are in the P2
-- VTCALS72
Jul 23, 2024 at 06:24 PM ET
VTCALS72
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07/23/24 06:24 PM ET
That's why we're currently on the outside looking in**
-- wwhokie1
Jul 23, 2024 at 09:12 PM ET
wwhokie1
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07/23/24 09:12 PM ET
So you think there really was anything the ACC, or Big 12 or PAC before
-- VTCALS72
Jul 23, 2024 at 09:18 PM ET
VTCALS72
•
07/23/24 09:18 PM ET
Nothing we could have done that would have made us equal with the P2, but
-- wwhokie1
Jul 23, 2024 at 09:39 PM ET
wwhokie1
•
07/23/24 09:39 PM ET
Question, aren't your "milestones" the same as the ESPN "Look in"
-- VTCALS72
Jul 24, 2024 at 06:56 AM ET
VTCALS72
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07/24/24 06:56 AM ET
I'm not sure anybody understands fully the ESPN look in. But it doesn't
-- wwhokie1
Jul 24, 2024 at 09:51 AM ET
wwhokie1
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07/24/24 09:51 AM ET
It's not what I feel about the ACC, it is what ESPN felt
-- VTCALS72
Jul 24, 2024 at 12:21 PM ET
VTCALS72
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07/24/24 12:21 PM ET
That was exactly the problem and the point I am making. The attitude that
◄
-- wwhokie1
Jul 24, 2024 at 01:37 PM ET
wwhokie1
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07/24/24 01:37 PM ET
It is the responsibility of the negotiator to know the value of the product
-- wwhokie1
Jul 24, 2024 at 12:02 PM ET
wwhokie1
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07/24/24 12:02 PM ET
No doubt ACC would be so much better off
-- SpeakToDamien
Jul 23, 2024 at 03:56 PM ET
SpeakToDamien
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07/23/24 03:56 PM ET
Your rebuttal needs more context........
-- 2hhoop3
Jul 23, 2024 at 03:00 PM ET
2hhoop3
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07/23/24 03:00 PM ET
Swofford and ACCs big white whale - Notre Dame
-- mjfhokie
Jul 23, 2024 at 10:22 AM ET
mjfhokie
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07/23/24 10:22 AM ET
Of all the pipedreams (ND) to put so many chips on and whiff. It
-- TDVick
Jul 27, 2024 at 11:13 PM ET
TDVick
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07/27/24 11:13 PM ET
The lesson is: if a big white whale swims by, enjoy the view but don't
-- wwhokie1
Jul 24, 2024 at 02:20 PM ET
wwhokie1
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07/24/24 02:20 PM ET
What has ND signed to say they will join the ACC
-- VTCALS72
Jul 23, 2024 at 01:39 PM ET
VTCALS72
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07/23/24 01:39 PM ET
Part of the deal with the ACC in 2016
-- Victor Tango
Jul 23, 2024 at 02:10 PM ET
Victor Tango
•
07/23/24 02:10 PM ET
I feel like this "deal" was an imaginary pipe dream by delusional leader-
-- VPI_1998
Jul 24, 2024 at 08:59 AM ET
VPI_1998
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07/24/24 08:59 AM ET
No, but here is an old Dennis Dodd article mentioning the agreement
-- Victor Tango
Jul 24, 2024 at 08:56 AM ET
Victor Tango
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07/24/24 08:56 AM ET
I agree on the basis of Phillips and Integrity
-- PFHokie
Jul 23, 2024 at 07:03 AM ET
PFHokie
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07/23/24 07:03 AM ET
But we (VT) would jump into the B1G if given the chance. Talk about
-- 133193Hokie
Jul 23, 2024 at 02:48 PM ET
133193Hokie
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07/23/24 02:48 PM ET
How about if they are the front, to get more money from ESPN for the ACC?
-- Stech
Jul 23, 2024 at 07:09 AM ET
Stech
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07/23/24 07:09 AM ET
I'm not willing to give the ACC enough credit for being that shrewd.
-- wwhokie1
Jul 23, 2024 at 10:41 AM ET
wwhokie1
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07/23/24 10:41 AM ET
What has happened is way above the heads of the Big 12, PAC or ACC
-- VTCALS72
Jul 23, 2024 at 01:44 PM ET
VTCALS72
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07/23/24 01:44 PM ET
That might be right, but at this point, all the theories are just guesses.
-- Stech
Jul 23, 2024 at 11:14 AM ET
Stech
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07/23/24 11:14 AM ET
It's not just you, but it's certainly the exception. **
-- wwhokie1
Jul 23, 2024 at 01:52 PM ET
wwhokie1
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07/23/24 01:52 PM ET
Agreed, especially in this day and time.**
-- Stech
Jul 23, 2024 at 06:53 PM ET
Stech
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07/23/24 06:53 PM ET
I've felt that Clemson might actually be doing the heavy lifting
-- obguthr
Jul 23, 2024 at 10:39 AM ET
obguthr
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07/23/24 10:39 AM ET
That's another plausible theory, but I lean if that is happening, FSU was
-- Stech
Jul 23, 2024 at 11:11 AM ET
Stech
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07/23/24 11:11 AM ET
It's an expensive legal ruse for them and the ACC if that is the plan.**
-- Victor Tango
Jul 23, 2024 at 08:41 AM ET
Victor Tango
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07/23/24 08:41 AM ET
Could be, but it also could increase the pay enough to make it worth it, my
-- Stech
Jul 23, 2024 at 11:09 AM ET
Stech
•
07/23/24 11:09 AM ET
Just read these boards to see the Swofford venom. Deserved or not, it's
-- ancient alien 2018
Jul 22, 2024 at 09:03 PM ET
ancient alien 2018
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07/22/24 09:03 PM ET
In my opinion Swofford more than deserves all the venom coming his way
-- VPI_1998
Jul 24, 2024 at 07:14 AM ET
VPI_1998
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07/24/24 07:14 AM ET
Reminds me of the NHL. Poor Gary Bettman gets boo’d everywhere.
-- OrlandoHokie
Jul 22, 2024 at 11:34 PM ET
OrlandoHokie
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07/22/24 11:34 PM ET
I know, but think Jim Phillips is referring to the lawsuits.
-- HOO86
Jul 22, 2024 at 11:19 PM ET
HOO86
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07/22/24 11:19 PM ET
Everybody liked the long-term GOR deal when it was signed.
-- wwhokie1
Jul 22, 2024 at 11:18 PM ET
wwhokie1
•
07/22/24 11:18 PM ET
Swofford catches grief primarily because of several things:
-- RJHokie
Jul 22, 2024 at 07:30 PM ET
RJHokie
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07/22/24 07:30 PM ET
Uhh...how about the conference of misfit toys dictating to the ACC?
-- Techsupport
Jul 23, 2024 at 09:44 AM ET
Techsupport
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07/23/24 09:44 AM ET
All you guys posting stuff like the ACC actually had a chance to be on
-- VTCALS72
Jul 23, 2024 at 02:40 PM ET
VTCALS72
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07/23/24 02:40 PM ET
We should sure as hell be above the B12, THATS the point.**
-- Techsupport
Jul 23, 2024 at 02:55 PM ET
Techsupport
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07/23/24 02:55 PM ET
B12 is on verge of a very big deal**
-- Techsupport
Jul 24, 2024 at 08:22 AM ET
Techsupport
•
07/24/24 08:22 AM ET
You are a better conference. You have elite academic institutions,
-- Big12 guy
Jul 23, 2024 at 03:05 PM ET
Big12 guy
•
07/23/24 03:05 PM ET
The ACC had their chance to take anybody they wanted from the Big 12.
-- wwhokie1
Jul 23, 2024 at 10:37 AM ET
wwhokie1
•
07/23/24 10:37 AM ET
3rd or 4th doesn't matter much as payout will pretty much equal out
-- VTCALS72
Jul 23, 2024 at 02:47 PM ET
VTCALS72
•
07/23/24 02:47 PM ET
That is only half of how dumb that was.
-- Truthahn
Jul 23, 2024 at 11:32 AM ET
Truthahn
•
07/23/24 11:32 AM ET
Agree, the Big 12 breaking up would have been preferable to the pac-12**
-- wwhokie1
Jul 23, 2024 at 01:51 PM ET
wwhokie1
•
07/23/24 01:51 PM ET
I think that KU would have preferred the ACC over the PAC - hands down. **
-- Big12 guy
Jul 23, 2024 at 11:48 AM ET
Big12 guy
•
07/23/24 11:48 AM ET
I'm not sure being #3 is a prize here, unless we can find
-- Big12 guy
Jul 23, 2024 at 11:02 AM ET
Big12 guy
•
07/23/24 11:02 AM ET
Number three is better than number four, however, in this case not by much.
-- wwhokie1
Jul 23, 2024 at 01:49 PM ET
wwhokie1
•
07/23/24 01:49 PM ET
Excellent post. He looks really bad. When you factor in the double
-- TDVick
Jul 23, 2024 at 03:49 AM ET
TDVick
•
07/23/24 03:49 AM ET
would you not agree that the ACC is still standing
-- VTCALS72
Jul 23, 2024 at 08:01 AM ET
VTCALS72
•
07/23/24 08:01 AM ET
Totally agree RJHokie, all are very valid points !**
-- FLKEYSHOKIE
Jul 22, 2024 at 10:07 PM ET
FLKEYSHOKIE
•
07/22/24 10:07 PM ET
Sounds like he did a good job today**
-- Vippie1
Jul 22, 2024 at 06:47 PM ET
Vippie1
•
07/22/24 06:47 PM ET
Subscriber only unfortunately.**
-- VTChip
Jul 22, 2024 at 11:31 PM ET
VTChip
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07/22/24 11:31 PM ET