How about we hire coaches who are the best at coaching even if you have to go to a lower football level to find them. Use the money savings difference on buying...um offering very competitive NIL deals. Preferably have at least 1 side of the ball that runs some sort of system that you can recruit to. Triple option would be great for offense, but it would be hard to attract good talent on defensive line getting chopped blocked in practice all the time. What other systems can you recruit to on one side of the ball to maximize money to on the other side?
134435Hokie
Absolutely no reason to think or believe that we will win at duke or against uva. Pry is about 50% used car salesman and he's good at that part. We need more than that and Pry just doesn't have the "it" factor.
George Baylor
Andy, fully agree with your #3, we are making few if any adjustments at half-time, even HS coaches do that. Point #5, IMO, Marve has not improved in two years as "acting OC" in year 1 it was Pry. How dumb is that hire someone and then do his job. Further Marve is the LB coach, and TSL writers have written time and time again that our LB play and improvement is bad. Keep Pry, replace Marve.
GO Hokies, need to beat UVA, Duke could well be a L. Two weeks to get healthy and play strong.
HokieLT276
This season is over. The staff may be able to pull some rabbits out of a few hats for the last two games, but that won't excuse the fact that change needs to be made. We will never know how things work on game day. Who calls the plays? OC/DC or "Play call by committee", whichever it is do the opposite. A blind person could have seen what Clemson was going to do in the third quarter. Stop placing the blame on kids not having the right fits, or running the wrong routes, or making mistakes, etc. etc. ALL OF THAT is the fault of the coaching. Why isn't Pry asking his own OC why Coney didn't get the ball. The kid is a legit RB. They didn't stop giving the ball to Tuten and he has had his share of fumbles. As a passionate, faithful fan of VT, I am tired of the excuses that lack substance.
boyd
I agree this bunch of coaches can not make a halftime adjustment. It is time to pull the plug on the no experience oc and dc coaches. The experiment has failed, move Pry to dc he still gets paid, but if he does not want to then he quits and we do not owe him any money.
hoaf
Get real. Demoting him accelerates his buyout. No contracts work the way you have suggested.
Doublehaul Hokie
The common denominator to this season is that it is always some different kind of problem that beats us. Hard to figure a fix for that.
vtgriff09
We can say that it is tough to move on after 3 seasons....you know exactly what you have after 3 seasons though. Why would you continue to run out a staff that you know isn't up to snuff. It is very obvious Pry is a liability...he is never going to be a winner...he is one of the worsr decision makers I have ever seen from a leader....dating back to his first ever decisions...as a 1st time HC, and ample money to spend, he opted for the 2 youngest OC and DC in the nation in p5, and they both had zero experience. The decisions have never improved. A corporation would never continue to drive themselves into the ground when the CEO showed he was incapable for 3 years. Move on now. We won't...we will be terrible next yr, and maybe we are lucky to move on after next yr.
CaryHokie
Brent Pry = Charlie Coffey
rickbattle
Drones is the number 88th rated NCAA QB. Reality sucks.
DesertHokie
Collin Schlee is a MUCH better passer. I’d play him the rest of the way and encourage Drones to transfer, and then pay top dollar for a QB in the portal.
vtgriff09
Yes. This is the answer. If you can't execute a passing gm, then you are never going to be a great team. Drones is over priced for being a one dimensional bull rb.
phtbddh
It's too bad Schlee is out of eligibility
133895Hokie
I agree Schlee is a better passer, but Drones' biggest problem is the inability to move around in the backfield, creating a diversion for the defense. Klubnik was a good example of moving around to create a problem for the defense.
79EEHOKIE
After reading Andy’s excellent article, I think you can triangulate on one problem. Unfortunately Pry is not providing the leadership required. This manifests itself in inconsistency week to week in game planning, clock management, halftime adjustments, decisions on the fly, etc. Pry is a great salesman for the program, but seems lost in aligning the coaches to pursue a thoughtful plan.
hokierodneync
With the Hoos beating Nardouchebag, I think we could lose to them if we play like yesterday’s team. Could be looking at finishing 5/7 as others have mentioned. BC besting the ‘Cuse and GaTech upsetting Miami ( the winners of these games we beat); this season is a head scratcher.
Coaching mistakes plus injuries factor in.
HokieAvalanche
Spot on Andy! And with Pry we're stuck with him for a some time!
GO_HOKIES_GO
I don’t see a path to salvation for this staff - it isn’t 1992 and Pry isn’t Frank Beamer. The question is how the senior path chart a path forward - they have been penny-wise and pound foolish since I was there in the 80’s. Now is the time for VT to decide, poop or get off the pot - get the smartest people you can find, muster all your cash, and build an organization that can thrive in the new environment. I suggest it might be a good idea to organize the football operations like the pro teams where a there is a GM (not the AD) that is responsible for both the talent acquisition staff and a coaching staff. This is not typical in college environments, but this really isn’t college football anymore. There is too much for one person to execute successfully today for the HC as supreme leader approach IMO - time to move on to a new model.
Doublehaul Hokie
Interesting concept! Things have changed so much since our success under Frank. It’s a different world and organizational changes may be the answer.
OhioHokie74
Beamer took over under much different circumstances and he couldn't fix the talent shortage the way Pry can with a full complement of scholarships and a portal to immediately get experience. Three years now is plenty of time.
DonQuiHokie
Andy, thanks for your weekly “5 Thoughts”, it has been my favorite weekly article for quite a while.
I rarely disagree with you, but I found myself reacting pretty angrily to the trick play at the end of the half. We should have had two primary objectives in that moment: score and run out the clock. At a minimum, we should have gone to half up 10-0 while gaining some positive momentum for the second half. Instead…. I knew the game was over the minute I saw that failed play. I felt similarly after the failed fake field goal versus Miami, which you were also okay with. Immediate momentum killer. Instead of going up two scores, we give field position and momentum to the opposite team and we can’t fully get it back.
bbowser
I’m not a proponent of tearing it all down, or leaving it all alone. I do think coaching at all levels at VT need improvement. But what did we expect really, hiring a Head Coach with zero head coaching experience. And the Hokies were not alone 3 years ago when several other national programs also hired new HCs w/o HC experience. See below:
Sample Current 3rd Yr. HCs who were Coordinators w/o HC experience
Big School Hot Shots
From Clemson to UVA, Tony Elliott, 3-3 conf, 5-4 overall, hired into dumpster fire, now mediocre ?
From Penn St. to VT, Brent Pry, 3-3 conf, 5-5 overall, hired into low/mediocre, now same?️
From Clemson to OK, Bret Venables, 1-5 conf, 5-5 overall, hired into high/good, now low/mediocre ?
The "Kid"
From VT, SC & OK to SC, Shane Beamer, 4-3 conf, 6-3 overall, hired into low mediocre, now good??
What’s different? Obviously Shane was raised at the foot of a CFB Legend who instilled in him the nuances of being a HC, clock mgt., player mgt., tactics over percentages, etc…Shane was never as good a coordinator as any of the other three, but he was taught to be a good HC by one of the best. And now with actual HC experience, he is becoming a great coach with unlimited ceiling. He may never make SC into a constant SEC Champ, but I’ll bet he brings them up to the level that the ‘Ol Ball Coach and Lou Holtz had them. And isn’t that what VT wanted? Bringing us back to our best years?
So hiring the successful Coordinator does not in recent times result in excellent HCs. But leaning to be a HC on the job in P4 football is iffy at best. I really, really like Pry, but after 3-yrs on the job he’s not an effective HC now, or possibly ever. It’s a shame, but not a surprise.
phoenixhokie
This is reasonable thinking and like the research here on other coaches. As usual, the 'fire em all' dolt crowd is thinking through this situation like storming through a Cat 5 hurricane, all fired up (!) **in a kayak**. So riddle me this: What 'hotshot DC' or 'hotshot OC' is going to come here for possibly 1-year? Anyone who does 3 ounces of research knows Pry is in the hotseat. So you're telling all of us that Pry can go out to the market and lure some hotshots to come here knowing, it's at least a 50/50 bet he won't be in Blacksburg at the end of next season? Put some brain power into this people. If he fires Marve and/or Bowen, he'll have to promote from within or grab lower level talent from the likes of JMU or Coastal Carolina. Is what it is. That what you want because that's the situation we're in. Wait this out after next year -- give him a full 4-year recruiting cycle - and if the whole house needs cleaning, you do it then.
DesertHokie
Didn’t undefeated Indiana hire JMU talent?
phoenixhokie
1 year does not make a program.
See: Seminoles, Florida State
Fisher, Jimbo
vtgriff09
Do you really believe we have any chance at a level of success next yr with the amount of starters we are losing?? Honestly?? I think we have a 5% chance of 7+ wins next yr. The odds are higher of a losing season than to just win a 7 (the Fuente standard). I don't know why in the world you would just stick with something that you know isn't going.to succeed just to say you gave him 4 yrs. It is inevitable. It's not an over-reaction or being to trigger happy...it is a realization that you massively screwed this hire up, and it is a pivot. Sooner is better. It can get worse, and I will bet any amount of money, it WILL get worse next year.
George Baylor
No question, `25 will be worse. If we can't win with 4th/5th year guys, won't win with Fr./So. either. This was Pry's season to show the program is BACK, we are back to not being good.
vtunited
Lower level talent at JMU? The Dukes would have beaten Tech last year and would have an even or better shot to do so this year. Undefeated Indiana has close to 10 starters/contributors that transferred from JMU this year.
proudhokie2001
Why do you act like Shane’s success at USC would be good enough at VT? Many people laud Matt Campbell and Shane as why Pry isn’t good enough. But, the fact is Pry will be judged on the wins, losses and championships. None of those coaches has one and VT fans all think we can get there again. Pry will either do it soon or both parties will move on. Certainly not this year. Find a way to get better when players aren’t healthy.
pharlap_99
!st and last time Frank is referenced re clock management :)
Shane obviously learned quite a bit from his dad and at the other schools where he coached. I will admit i did not see him succeeding at SC. If he has a chance to parlay that into a "better" job, gotta jump. Really tough to sustain success at SC
GobbleGobble10
"Having a dozen running backs on scholarship doesn't seem so crazy now, does it?"
-Fuente, probably
Spartacusjones
For whatever reason, Florida State arrived DOA for this season. The Hokies have shown at times that they can be the team everyone expected to be the surprise of the ACC. The rest of the time, they have shown themselves to be a team that has poor fundamentals, poor coaching, varying effort, and mystifying collapses.
This team defines INCONSISTANT!
You can't get far in P5 football with that as your primary trait.
89gEEk
Andy, you're why I subscribe.
Truth!
GoneFishin Hokie
Did anybody even ask about Coney? Didn't watch, but I was looking at live stats, and I couldn't believe that he wasn't given a chance. Is Pry trying to drive him into the portal?
GobbleGobble10
I'm wondering if they trust Coney, but don't trust anyone behind him. Might be scared to give him a bunch of carries and risk injury if there's no one who can replace him for blocking, etc.
phtbddh
If Coney wasn't a liability in the Syracuse game. Instead they decided to run an injured QB and rely on a back up QB in the fourth when it was obvious he wasn't being effective. Clemson could have been stacking the box but the coaching staff just decided our depth wasn't worth the chance.
pine52x
A QB who can see the field and can accurately throw the ball can solve a lot of the problems. Someone who can throw screens, slants, and can throw the ball accurately down field. Drones should be a halfback. I have not seen enough of Schlee to decide how good he could be. I think he has more upside than Drones, but he is a senior. My guess is that Drones will be moving on. Teams that have a sudden resurgence from one year to the next usually have a new QB that changes what the team is capable of accomplishing. Also, an offense that can score tends to benefit the defense as well.
JBHokieFan
We need some experience on this coaching staff. Our inexperienced coordinators were supposed to make up with their coaching shortcomings by being recruiting aces, but it's not like our recruiting is significantly better than it was under Fuente. I'd replace Marve with someone more experienced, or bring in a game manager of sorts and let Pry call the defense.
TomTurkey
Harbingers of doom keep pointing to the pending Apocalypse next year. Not sure it would be viewed much better (read tolerated) with a good to great 2024, or worse following it as in "precipitous drop."
One way to consider it is there will be another trough requiring a rebuild vs reload. Can the troughs be lifted each cycle until the reload (or less rebuild) is possible, i.e., trend?
The staff probably needs an objective outside review of the symbiotic nemesis of message board posters - coaching/play calling vs talent/execution. TBD
NTMike2222
We need to beat UVA. Rest Drones and Tuten until then. Play Schlee (if healthy) or Pop against Duke. See what we have in Pop. Give Coney 15+ carries. Sit Felton - the number of drops this season is not OK - the Drones INT yesterday should have been a catch by Felton or at a minimum, a drop (it went through Felton to the Clemson DB). Play Adams and Wiggins in place of Felton. Let XTB get the ball on a reverse (this worked well multiple times last year for explosive plays and yet he hasn’t touched the field this year…makes no sense). Can’t lose to UVA. Beat UVA, win lousy bowl, go 7-6, and begin offseason cycle of believing we’ll be better next year with a healthy Drones, Coney, young WRs, and young defenders (Woodson, Lovett, Reddish, etc.) + portal adds. Start season. Go 5-7. Hire Shane. Believe this time will be different (knowing it will not be). Cheers.
BigChief77
As long as Shane has a job at SC, he will not want the VT job. His name is now coming up for Oklahoma's next coach.
JPAlleghany
Best part of game was the smile on Coach Beamers face on TV when Reddish ran the block back. Why do Miami and Clemson get to continually make borderline targeting hits and get away with it, or should we turn up the meanness on or defense ?
sponge747
True. I’ve also noticed this year how much harder the SEC teams hit and how few tackles they miss. We just seem lackadaisical and completely accepting of being mediocre - exemplified by not showing up ready to play or actually putting in work during half time to adjust to reality - or counter it. Injuries and lack of recovery (or realistic assessment of it) points that out our training staff is still sub par. Ugh!
saret
Andy, good article, as usual. I have no answers either. Unfortunately, I don't think the people in charge have many answers either. IMHO, they will probably default to the status quo (i.e., making no adjustments at halftime). @2hhoop3 always explains things better than I, but there are a lot of moving parts (budget, fundraising, buyouts, possibly malaise around the program, NIL, the House suit, etc.). And yet, I have no confidence anyone has a plan, will have a plan, or are capable of formulating a plan.
OhioHokie74
#1 question: why didn't Coney get touches. If the answer is because he fumbled once, then the coaches are total fools. Fools who repeat their own mistakes over and over.
HokieHuddle
+100
bburgnative
Agree. Drones has his own fumble problems as well
GoneFishin Hokie
And Tuten has been known to put the ball on the ground as well. If anyone even asked about Coney, I'm sure Pry had some non-answer ready to go.
pine52x
Tuten has a pro career in front of him. He should not be playing injured, nor does he want to. Too much at risk. I think he was in there yesterday only to distract/keep the defense honest. Getting the call to run/catch the ball probably surprised him. I bet if he were 100 percent healthy, he would have no problem with 20 to 30 carries as he has done all year.
Hokiesstickitin
My guess is the idiots in charge thought that they could use Tuten as a decoy and never really have to run him. That Clemson wouldn't catch on to the no running plan because it was so genius and that we could win with a passing game from a hurt mediocre at best QB. Having a healthy RB that you could run even if he wasn't super effective is way better than a decoy that can't do anything. The game plan right or if the gate was horrible. I don't think they were trying to save Coney i just think they are overthinking that they are some geniuses like usual and can pull off something that up until now 3 seasons in has never worked. Sad state of affairs right now and the future
phtbddh
Yeah, that game plan should have changed after the first quarter but this staff is way too slow to adapt
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