It was a rough Saturday in Chapel Hill for Virginia Tech. (Ivan Morozov)
Well, that was rough. Virginia Tech lost to North Carolina 41-10 on Saturday, which means in their last two games against border rivals, they’ve been outscored 73-20. Ouch. It’s the first time since 1989 that the Hokies have failed to score more than 10 points in two consecutive games. Some of you reading this weren’t even born then.
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That’s a good, thoughtful write up. I found it interesting your comment that we might have won 7 games last season if Burmeister and Blackshear hadn’t been benched against Miami. Now add 3 games to that. Games in which we were 1-2 plays away from beating WVU, ND, and Syracuse. Now you have a team that was close to being a 10 win team, and yet it all popped and fizzled into this dreadful mess we are looking at now and scratching our heads. Losing those 3 games last year the way we did, brings up shades of 1992 to me, when our 2-8-1 team lost 7 games they were leading in the 4th quarter. That year, AD Dave Braine stuck with his head coach amid our yelling fan base that overwhelmingly wanted Braine to fire him. Everybody knows how that turned out. Whit opted for the other option last season, and here we are. That’s not to judge Whit, perhaps it will turn out well in the long run. Now it is still to early to tell.
I’m not a very good judge of football “talent” unless it’s the kind that jumps out at everyone. So I rarely have any comments on talent. Rankings and stars don’t mean that much to me, although I do know we were doing better when we were bringing in more players off the “Virginia Top 25”. So, I think we need to get back to that. But, it makes sense that player development is huge to a program that recruits at our level, and that goes back to coaching, as well as recruiting goes back to coaching. And, calling plays goes back to coaching, and game management goes back to coaching. And, all these things look to be disorganized right now which implies to me that coaching is our main concern right now. So, I’m looking primarily for short term tweaks and long term changes in coaching before we start digging out of this hole. It would be nice to start seeing some in season improvement but it’s going to be a longer haul to get our program back to the levels we enjoyed in the past.
lfrench
In the very beginning Brent Pry said " we have some good players , just do not have enough of them" Our expectations have been and remain unrealistic. Relying on hope is never a good plan.
proudhokie2001
not mad, not sad, just frustrated
Really enjoyed the write up, keep up the good work.
MDHokie79
Chris hit the nail on the head, backing up what I've been saying all weekend. The most disheartening thing is that we are NOT seeing any type of PROGRESS! And that is both sad and UNSAT.
GO HOKIES!
T-Austin
I agree with pretty much everything said here but just have a couple of points to add.
First, I'm not denying that their are some red flags with some of the coaching going on thus far. But to determine in year 1 whether Pry and Co. can do better than Elko and Co. (or TCU's new staff) is premature (as far as Kansas goes that different because we are seeing it for more than one year). By that statement I'm not saying anyone here is saying that but let's just see how it plays out before we overreact.
Currently it appears that Elko (and TCU's staff) are doing better than Pry BUT have we all forgotten what Fu and Co did in year 1 at Tech? That story didn't end so well after a very promising start. Again not saying there shouldn't be some self evaluation in some areas but again us Hokie fans should know better than to lock something in as a success after year 1 with what Fu and Co did. Fools gold comes to mind here. By that I'm not saying Elko (or TCU's staff) won't be successful beyond their first season; all I am saying is it is too early to determine that and time will tell. So yes the current state sucks but I'd much rather have a different story this go round. So if that means we start at the bottom and go up then so be it.
Secondly, about playing the freshman. I am one of those people who (especially when the game is already decided) wants to see the young guys play. But within reason. Don't burn a guys shirt for barely any snaps BUT you get 4 games and you've been blown out the last 2 games. So if they've practiced at all and have some sort of idea of how to run the plays let them play, why not?
Like nothing against Jason Brown but what good does it do to play him late in a game (when he only has this year left) instead of giving someone like Devin some time. In case Wells were to get hurt maybe?? At this point I think it is fair to say we need to play for the future (nothing against our seniors that don't have another COVID year). Again within reason. Do not play anyone that clearly isn't ready enough to burn their redshirt or needs the weight room more vs on the field experience.
But for the ones that are already traveling with the team and dressing out why not let them get some run. If they have already burned their redshirt (like Duke) IMO there is no reason someone like him shouldn't get a larger portion of the carries of a guy like Holston (who is what he is at this point). If they are hovering keeping their redshirt and there are guys in front of them that can return then don't waste their redshirt but if they have 4 games to play and we are getting blown out (and they are already dressed) throw them in. Again why not?
Anyways just my two cents.
DLDesk
I just like to say for the record that's more like 85 cents hahaha
vvhokie
Running game coordinator, passing game coordinator, offensive coordinator-when everyone is responsible, no one is really responsible.
Atlee Hokie
Simple question. Why in Hell was Bowen hired as OC?
Is Pry going to die on the same OC hill that Fuente did?
atlhokie1
Little early for that isn't it?
phoenixhokie
Uh .. thank you!!! Seriously.
bbowser
+1
MYNAMEISHOKIE
Definitely a bit premature to ask that...the Fuente/Corn issue was more when we realized things trending downwards in the 2018-2019 seasons and Fuente still decided to keep Corn for 3 more years despite the fact that he was struggling and not adjusting at all to the players he had.
In this case we're only 5 games into everyone's first season, and there's no way that an OC is going to fired 5 games into their first season when we're not even sure if the issues are his playbook, player development/execution, or something else. I wouldn't expect to see anything about coaching changes until after the season anyways, so definitely a bit early to start speculating that Pry's downfall will be hanging on to Bowen 3-4 years longer than he should've!
phoenixhokie
Again, thanks for the sanity. The chants of 'this is alllll Whit's fault' and 'Bowens' too young and inexperienced for this gig!' are burning through my last nerve. Have you looked at NFL sidelines lately?? Some of those coordinators are barely old enough to drink a beer.
HokiePilot
Somewhere CJF and Corn are enjoying a relaxing Saturday afternoon with a huge grin on their faces. I doubt "Ham" is smiling, but he has to feel a little bit vindicated as well. 5 games into their first season in B'Burg is WAY too early to be talking about coaching changes, and laying all of this at Whit's feet is too simplistic. This is NOT a fun season, and the only game that will get me chapped is if we let go of the Commonwealth Cup. I am pretty sure we are staring 3-9 or possibly 4-8 right in the face TBH.
You are 100% correct that these coaches are all new to each other, most are new in the positions they are coaching and are trying to teach a system to players that have never played this system, what other outcome is it reasonable to expect? Having said that, if this same conversation comes up in 12 months, that is a whole different conversation. VT doesn't "deserve" anything, the teams will earn the accolades based upon W&L's. If Pry is really "the guy" and I suspect that he will be, he needs to be given the opportunity to learn how to be a "big whistle" as well. IMHO to expect anything more in 5 weeks is unrealistic, but I am also realistic given being patient and realistic are still stuck in the elevator at ODU, of maybe they were part of what was stolen out of the locker room.
I am still going to watch the games and hope for better outcomes, but the light in the tunnel for me this year is MBB and WBB is only a month away!
OldRaleighHokie
I think Pry will have to jettison some of his cronies, the way Beamer was made to back in 92.
SCHokie1103
I think it needs to start with Bowen. He is just instills no confidence in my opinion to run our offense. Unless things begin to improve soon. I would be surprised if Bowen is here next year. I was no Corny fan either but he was better than what we have seen from Bowen so far.
atlhokie1
Wonder if Bowen was too used to working with 4 - 5 star material and unable to figure out how to scratch out scores with average players?
ONELLY
Agree. It seems headed this way.
George Baylor
CC, you have opened my "eyes" more. I was 100% on the we have no talent problem, but for sure the coaching staff is not getting the same outputs with last year's players. Without any doubt UNC had much better players than us, but when everyone else scores on the Heels and we get only 10. OUCH!
Pitt will beat us easily, as will Miami & NC State.. Yes, 3-9 looks as only potential.
VT Rockie
Good article. I know a lot of mad people including me. Something has to change in Blacksburg. We are better than this as a university which should be the leader not only in the Commonwealth of Virginia but in the ACC. We find ourselves at the bottom or near the bottom with no signs things will get better. Someone call 911!!!!!!
hokie4life93
Whit: "So your plan is to hire a guy who's never been an OC and a guy who's never been a DC and you will call plays at DC while trying to run a program for the first time in your career?"
Pry: "Yes, that is my plan."
Whit: "You're hired!"
steves13
That about sums it up, unfortunately!
LCHokieFan
I will admit that red flags went off for me when I heard Pry was going to continue calling plays and that "eventually those duties will be turned over". Reminded me a little of someone in corporate America that got a promotion but couldn't let go of the day to day - insecure in the new duties and afraid someone else couldn't do the old ones (I've been there and done that myself).
vtgriff09
Best article I have seen. You are seeing the light really fast and your perception of things is less O&M and more logical. Talent is not the issue in 4 of 5 gms. I have said the same that this pretty much the same defense that was better last yr. Same OLinemen were better last yr. Zero imorovement has happened. We are worlds better than GA St, App St and FAMU...didn't even know FAMU was missing 24 suspended players. We are a flat embarassment, we aren't coaching guys up, there is less effort each gm and the recruiting flat stinks. Please tell me who in the world is showing up to play for this offense and this staff??? Answer is exactly what we are getting, VA players outside the top 20 that can't go to another P5 school.
CC is 100% right on....coaching matters. We have somehow massively downgraded despite having double the money to hire people. Embarrassing.
DCL
Chris awesome article. The next two weeks will determine bud this team has any fight. Concerning is the lack of contribution from our most senior players especially on defense. Garbutt, Chapman, Murray , Griffin , Silas, etc all had poor games. Murray gets burned in every game it seems . This is new ground for Hokie fans too after 20 years of teams. I will reserve main judgments on the coaches for a few more games But in every game this year we have failed to convert 3rd and 1’s or 4thand 1’s
khakiblue
Look no further than Babcock.
phoenixhokie
Okay -- let's look at ALLLLLL the other coaches he's hired. Have you watched VT men's or women's basketball .. oh .. in the last several years???? Checked a VT baseball score lately????I'm done with the 'this is all on Whit' and 'this is all on Fu'. Whit could land a MAJOR job in the SEC tomorrow if he wanted. Puhlease folks, open your eyes beyond -- 'fire this dude, fire that dude, this dude never called plays.' This is a 5-8 year systematic problem to fix that goes back to Frank's days. There were some decent years in there that belied big problems. If you guys were in charge, we'd have a new AD every 18 months, a new head 'ball coach every 2 years and we'd officially be the UT Vols of the ACC. Wake up and grab one freakin' clue on what this rebuild will take.
SCHokie1103
With all the success he has had in other sports. This is a football first school that pays for those other sports. You got to take care of your football program first and foremost. WB does not have a great track record for hiring football coaches so he had better get this one right or it will be on him and he will be looking for a new job. I love all VT sports but football needs to be king and it hasn’t been for a long time including back to the end of FB years. It’s not all on Fuente. It’s a cop out and excuse to blame that all on him like him or not.
phoenixhokie
Don't disagree at ALL that football is king. Of course. But Dr. Sands isn't going to fire Whit this year or next b/c that then puts Pry and the entire football program in a bind. A new AD may (or may not) come in and want his/her own man on the sidelines at Lane Stadium. That's why all the 'fire Whit!!!' BS burns me up. Whit and Pry -- whether you like it or not -- are somewhat a package deal for at least 2 and likely 3 years. We all remember how coaches recruited against Frank in his latter years, right? So, let's say the 'fire Whit' crew gets their wish at the end of this year or next. Dabo then goes in every living room of every kid considering VT and says, 'You know son, it's a great school but that athletic department is a mess and that usually means coaching departures and firings are next. I've been there. I know. You don't want that. Coach Pry is looking over his shoulder, poor guy. I'm not. You deserve coaching stability in the head man........'
atlhokie1
The real ability of the new coach is his evaluation of the program/season at the end of the year. Will he evaluate his new coaches and decide which ones weren't performing well and replace them or adjust responsibilities?
For the offense, wonder if too many cooks in the kitchen with 2 previous OC's and each of them in charge of passing/running games. Seems like the OC is just there to call plays?
Hokie67
WB does not have a great track record for hiring football coaches >>>>
Kinda forgetting that EVERYONE thought that hiring Fuente and keeping Foster was huge. In fact - all the 'experts' said it was the best hire that year. The hiring of Pry can be evaluated as the seasons progress. Hopefully that success won't be like Scott Frost's success at Nebraska.
Chris, great stuff as always.
atlhokie1
I put some of the Fuente issues on WB because 1. he apparently didn't fund the program as asked and 2. he kept Fuente on the extra year when everyone pretty much knew it was over.
Scott0672
Hiring Fu was generally thought to be a sage move at the time. Let's not try to rewrite history.
jjpadgett70419
Very well said
LXNTN_HOKIE
Good comment. I don't think we could get a better AD to come here than Whit. He believed Coaches Brooks, Williams (before he left for T. A&M) Young and Szefc were the right fit for their programs and now we are seeing the rewards. Plenty of people were questioning those hires a year or more in, but it just took time. Give Pry at least 3 or 4 years; everyone wants instant success, but it does take time. I hope and think Pry will be one to evaluate the program after this season and make any staff changes that need to be made for the good of the program. I hope he will have similar success as the aforementioned coaches in building a program all Hokie fans can be proud of.
bcrystal
Chris, great analysis as always. I am numb right now too. I am especially confused about Kansas and Duke all of a sudden finding tremendous success and the Hokies finding less success. This was not a total rebuild; the team just needed more development and improved coaching in some areas. I know Coach Pry will need time and perhaps we will be rewarded; but I am concerned. I did not anticipate feeling this way five games into the season.
Efigalaxie
When I say that Fu left the cupboard bare…..that does not include the last recruiting class. It is sad it took his job on the line to get that level of recruiting. Fu was awfully close last year to turning the corner…. Would he have been fired had he won 2 more games?
01_hokie
Honestly, had we given him the same money we gave Pry for his coaching staff AND Fuente agreed to fire Corny, I would have preferred we kept him. However, those things did not happen and here we are.
The coaching staff needs the rest of the year to develop and then Pry can decide what to do. He has seen big boy football so hopefully he knows when to change direction.
3-9 and all momentum will be gone. Actually, lose to Liberty and UVA and it will be gone. To have those 4 L’s in one year (the other two being ODU and WVU) is an awful thought.
LXNTN_HOKIE
I did like Fu from listening to him in the postgame and Tech Talk Live interviews and wanted him to succeed here. With the 2022 recruiting class supposedly on paper being his best, who knows if he would have gotten the program better? Maybe with more money for staff or a new OC? But that is water over the bridge. I do think Pry is a better cultural "fit". Hopefully, that translates into higher level recruiting success and better developing of talent. I certainly don't expect Tech to be an "elite" program; just a consistent Top 25 level program.
Machokie83
Great article and observations Chris. Yesterday I came to the conclusion that the inexperience of the coordinators is part of the problem. Pry somehow convinced Whit that hiring coordinators that will learn on the fly for a year or two was the best option for VT football. I too was hoping to see development and improvement during the year but not so. Hopefully recruiting can survive.
Dbl Eagle
I don't think the OL is as bad as people are saying. Wells has only been sacked three times and we have a running back averaging over 6 ypc. Yes the other running backs are averaging 2-3 ypc at best, but that is on the RBs, since one RB is doing well with this OL.
SCHokie1103
Man you have to be kidding me. This OL has been terrible at run blocking. So yeah it’s pretty bad. A good OL has to do both!
sacramento hokie
We need to develop some sort of identity on offense and make better offensive playcalling..
We punted I think every time yesterday on fourth and short- knowing that UNCheat was going to come right down the field with a punt … ine was especially dumb.. it’s easy to see that Bowen is learning in the job- your Elko coaching comparison proves the point
Efigalaxie
Absolutely…. I think that is exactly it… They are ALL learning….even Pry. I think that if this staff can suddenly click, you will see a marked change in this team. It will be sudden too. I have worked as an industrial maintenance electrician/troubleshooter/mechanic for three different companies. At each place, the click has/or will / happened. I have been at my newest employer for about a year and a half. It is a very large and complex facilty. Overall, it is the most complex of them. That click is so near. I feel it. When it occurs, I become more relaxed in the job…less tense. But the click happens in a relatively short space of time. It is starting to happen in my job now. This is why i say IF this staff collectively experiences that click……it will be relatively sudden. You will see us do better for a game or two…then it will be as if we got new players. You might also have seen that in UNC yesterday. So lets hope that this staff ‘Clicks’ soon.
SCHokie1103
I hope your right but it sounds like you been smokin some good stuff?
atlhokie1
Hahahaha........
Durham Hokie
Chris - you write near the end of your article that the last Fuente recruits were his best. And many folks say Fuente left the cupboard bare.
And some players transferred because of the coaching change.
This year the offense and defense are regressing.
Looks like the Pry years will be much worse than any of the Fuente years.
Efigalaxie
You are correct. Unless/Until Pry and his staff get proficient in their roles, this will be worse. Fu was already a successful head coach. A lot about his tenure puzzle the heck out of me. Pry does fit the culture better. I think he will recruit better. Can he and his assistants coach? As of yet, my answer is no…not on the field. They haven’t become a cohesive unit yet.
Walkin` Willie
Yeah, we need to see improvement but it seems like we want everything right now because other teams seemed to be doing it with new coaches after bad years. When I saw how the Maryland guys were ripped and our guys seemed pretty soft last year, I knew right then we were in for a massive rebuild. It reminded me of our first ACC home basketball game against UNC in 2004. When the two teams came out for the tip, I started chuckling as UNC was ripped and we were mighty thin looking and the final score represented such. I saw the same thing yesterday and against WVU.
It is going to take a LOT of time for this program to turn around. I can either be miserable during this process like so many of us are - at least on the boards - or I can choose irrational hope along with a massive dose of reality. I'll go with the latter rather than the former.
phoenixhokie
So true. Same is true at the workplace. I tell young cohorts -- positivity attracts positivity and negativity does the same thing. It's really your choice.
Gonna' let the basement dwellers here and on the comment boards just spin themselves into a negative, unworkable, unrealistic lather.
atlhokie1
I've given up on the season but as CC mentioned, I'd like to see something click and some improvement start to show.
LXNTN_HOKIE
I'll go with the latter, also.
MKD
I just don't understand why the offensive line is so bad. Also, the overall team speed is as slow as I can remember in the past 30 years. Like my dad said yesterday, "it looks like VT is running in deep sand and UNC is running on an Olympic track surface".
Billyburg Hokie
+1
pine52x
Excellent article. I wish the coaching staff subscribed to TSL and would read it.
Hokie FF
Hell, I'd pay for their subscription if they would read it.
LXNTN_HOKIE
Chris is spot on with his commentary. He's my favorite analyst of Tech football. I think Coach Pry should give him a side job to come to the coach's meetings and help analyze the situation.
richardca99
Yesterday was the first game during which I really started to feel like the coaching staff was part of the problem. Maybe it was the run up the middle on 3rd and 8 (again...it's become a meme at this point) that set me over the edge. Never mind the terrible offense, I was blown away by how out-of-position our secondary was over and over again. Everyone is regressing...and that's not really representative of a talent issue. I hope Pry has more intestinal fortitude than Fuente when it comes to his assistants.
Efigalaxie
Exactly…. For the love of God, be rational. Put experienced coordinators in charge. I thought it odd when i saw it… Now I know it was bad. Pry should as well.
extremehokie
I agree that we are limited on talent-but we (Pry) did ourselves no favors by hiring inexperienced coordinators. These coaches may be great, eventually, but the learning on the job part is what I have a hard time with.
Besides, our talent isn't 2004 level, but its not as bad as it has appeared the past two games.
There are red flags everywhere. Blumrick needs to have the ball in his hands more-something the coaches even said weeks ago. Holston, while a team guy, should not get any more carries. Wells only reads one receiver, or so it appears. King is too hurt to play RB in second half, but still returns the kickoff. Lofton just can't catch, so move him to defense or RB.
These are just a few SIMPLE details that average fans, like me, can see. I realize its way more complicated than any of us understand, but the lack of improvement is very concerning.
I'm willing to give Pry a couple years, but is the offense doesn't make visible improvements this year, he needs to can Bowen, and perhaps a few more.
richardca99
I agree with everything you said, but, regarding Wells' seeming inability to go through his reads:
I wonder how much of that is the terrible offensive line. I want to see him play behind competent linemen before I can judge that.
Efigalaxie
If Wells is behind a competent line, his play will improve….a lot
atlhokie1
If he has a running game that keeps the secondary closer to the LOS and they have to commit more than 4 players to rush he might have a chance.
Still, on that interception he needs to throw it into the ground.
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