Exit37

Jacksonville State is in Jacksonville, Alabama and Jackson State is in Jackson, Mississippi.

I forgot that Bowen came on after Wells so I guess he got stuck with someone he didn't pick himself which is no doubt not ideal. I still think our coordinators complete lack of experience and track record puts us at a disadvantage when trying to compete for quality or transformative talent. Absolutely our coordinators will have to sell early playing time and sell scheme, and point out via tape deficiencies in prior talent to show examples of how better players would be able to thrive. But at the end of the day the player is still trusting that the OC has the depth of experience and the track record needed to install the scheme correctly, make both seasonal and in-game adjustments when needed, get the right personnel combinations, etc -- which is all easier to do when the recruit can look at more that one bad season of tape. Elko's OCs can literally show decades of tape and scheme/player fit across multiple programs-- our guys can can show one season's worth of games. Beyond that and the scheme itself -- it's all about coach and coordinator trust and hope. Scheme, playing time, trust and hope are all easier to sell when those are sold alongside seasoned, proven, experienced coordinators.

TCU's OOC consisted of the world's worst Colorado team (finished 1-11), Tarleton State (FCS), and SMU UGA had one really good OOC win -- Oregon (who finished 9-3), followed by Samford (FCS) and Kent State OSU had a win over a then terrible ND team that subsequently lost to Marshall and a terrible Stanford team, along with OOC wins over Arkansas State and Toledo Yep Michigan OOC schedule is absolutely the worst of the bunch -- over Colorado State, Hawaii, and UConn, but they also have the best wins of any team in FBS, and are the only team to have wins over two teams ranked in the Top 10 (#2 and #9 -- both by margins that were basically the same as the 34-11 loss Michigan suffered last year). You characterized that as a beatdown that made Michigan look like they were "getting stomped by a HS team". Well the same should apply this year -- Michigan beat OSU in Columbus by 22 and PSU by 24 -- meaning that Michigan stomped a #2 OSU and #9 PSU like a HS team to use your words. Michigan was originally scheduled to play at UCLA this Fall but the AD cancelled the series because he wanted to the revenue from 7 home games. As a Michigan alum, I wish that game had not been cancelled. Michigan may not have proved dominance OOC but they beat the teams that were scheduled, and they have shown they are better than TCU and OSU. While their wins are better than UGA, UGA is the king of the hill for a reason and the only team that can say they are better than Michigan to date. But that's why they will be favored should Michigan advance. Maybe Michigan will be exposed either vs TCU or in the subsequent game should the advance, but I'm hoping they won't be. At this point, I'm just happy I have two teams to root for and with VT down, I can pour my emotional energy into team 2.

I've not really seen anything to suggest Wells is the guy, and to be sure we apparently have no one on the roster who is better, but saying we stunk because the players were terrible is not a winning sales pitch. Bowen literally has nothing to sell beyond hope that things will get better if only he gets the players he wants. They were the ones who brought in Wells. They are responsible for game planning around our roster realities. And whatever those realities are, we do not have a roster that is worse than ODU, for instance. That's coaching. That's preparation. Duke does not have better talent than we have. But they do have better coaching and better coordinators -- far better coordinators that our lot. Why is Bowen being paid the same as FSU's OC? almost the same as Clemson's? Far more than Duke's? $250K more per year than K-State's? Lunacy. Zero value for money. They were the ones who returned a talented offensive line from last year and ruined it -- the exact same players turned into woefully underperforming players under the new regime. Bowen can't point to any prior history as a coordinator or play caller or offensive innovator or as a developer of offensive talent. Because he's too green and unqualified and inexperienced to have done any of that yet. Bowen may be a capable OC in a decade but not 6 years removed from being a GA with zero experience as an OC. Name one other FBS program, let alone P5 program, that would have hired Bowen and Marve to be the OC and DC. Pry is a rookie HC and you never surround a rookie HC with rookie, inexperienced coordinators. Ever. Regardless of industry, doubling down on inexperience is a recipe for disaster. Pry screwed the pooch the moment he hired two utterly unqualified, inexperienced coordinators to his staff instead of doing what Elko did. Yes, our roster and talent needs better caliber players but what is the winning sales pitch Bowen uses to grab that better offensive talent, for instance? It can't be we stunk because our players stunk, so please please we really need you. The pitch has to be simply -- trust me if you come to VT things will get better and you will succeed individually and as a team. WE are a family - we are building something special and we see you as key to that future success. It's a pitch 100% based on hope and a prayer -- not on anything concrete or demonstrable. That's a tough sell is all I'm saying. Better coordinators who have a proven track record of success and player development can point to that prior experience and it helps assuage concerns by recruits -- it helps sell the program better and the offensive system and improve the chances of leveling-up the talent on the team when those doing the selling are highly qualified, seasoned, experienced and have a proven track record at other programs. Bowen and Marve lack that which creates a tough situation for VT. We need better talent, but to attract better talent we either need demonstrable recent success or we need experienced and qualified and proven coaches and coordinators that warrant the trust of in-demand recruits. We have neither currently, which puts us in a very difficult position when trying to improve our roster. I just don't see us being able to make any sort of significant gains in improving the talent via HS recruiting or the portal given where VT is at the moment, the competition, and given our hope-based sales pitch. Which means our player development better be off the charts or we might be wandering the football wasteland for a while.

What QB / offensive skill position with any modicum of talent will choose to hitch his wagon to Bowen? He's completely unqualified as a OC and was in charge of a historically bad offense at VT. QBs and WRs will want stats and wins and being part of a system that develops offensive talent. I wanna hear the winning sales pitch Bowen makes to prospective offensive players.

Remember when UNC was an at-best middling football school? It wasn’t that long ago. Pepperidge Farm remembers. And now a 9-4 UNC is too big time for tech to be appealing. Ugh

Totally inexperienced, wholly unqualified, and completely overpaid given their extraordinarily thin qualifications. There is not a single FBS school, let alone P5 school, that would have hired our two guys to be coordinators with zero prior coordinator experience and being just 6 years removed from being GAs. Colossal level of hiring and organizational level ineptitude. Our OC makes $250,000 a year more than K-State’s OC, the same as FSU and almost the same as Clemson’s OC. Absurdity, given their lack of accomplishments and wafer thin resume. Look at the coordinator staff Elko put together vs ours. No comparison and he had a budget significantly less than ours. VT should not be a learn-on-the-job coordinator training program for green position coaches but with FSU and Clemson level pay. The money was there to hire actual, real experienced coordinators and this is the trainwreck of complete inexperience Pry and Whiff assembled. I want Pry to succeed because the alternative is even more years wandering the football underperformance wasteland. Pry may or may not be the guy but I was hoping he’d look at our historically low levels of offensive performance and at least make a change at OC. But his recent staff comments suggest a stubbornness and doubling down on historic levels of underperformance and a doubling down on coordinator inexperience that concerns me greatly. And without changes at the OC position, good luck to Pry and company as they try to recruit quality offensive talent to the program. What QB or WR will want to hitch their wagon to a Bowen offense? HCs need to make tough decisions. There is absolutely nothing this staff has shown over this season that suggests our coordinators will be able to produce a highly (or even moderately) competitive team. They took higher performing players at all positions from last year and turned them into significant underperformers this year. This isn’t the same as a coach who hired experienced coordinators who have underperformed and canning then after a year. Our coordinators should never have been hired to begin with so this would be righting a wrong that never should have happened. Maybe Bowen might one day be a solid coordinator but when you look at the resume of other coordinators, Bowen is likely close to a decade away from earning that OC title. As is, he was gifted it. He didn’t earn it. In light of Pry’s recent resistance to even consider staff changes (which don’t have to be outright firings but could be reshuffling responsibilities, playcalling, or demotions), my confidence that Pry is the guy is at a season low. I now find myself doubting he will be successful here, although I hope I’m wrong.

With all the team options available to high quality transfer QBs, trying to sell a prospect to come play for a dysfunctional offense led by an inexperienced OC who is in over his head is a tough sell. Nevertheless, I can still hope we somehow snag a transformative portal pickup or two.

But that was such an obvious missed call anyone would be upset

Each of Elko’s coords has 20+years post GA experience and at least a decade each being an OC or DC. Our are 6yrs removed from being a GA and all have zero OC/DC experience. No amount of coaching up this set of woefully inexperienced coordinators would substitute for actual experience. And the icing on the cake is how much we are overpaying for this OC and DC inexperience

Pry seems to have had no plan and lacked the awareness to realize you don’t take flyers on totally inexperienced OC and DC. As was said elsewhere, Elko looks like a guy who always was gunning for a HC job. He gained experience working under a variety of coaches, seen multiple ways of coaching, got promoted, and took the best of all the great coaches and systems he’s worked under to develop a clear plan and process in anticipation of the day he got the HC call. By contrast, Pry looks like a guy who was on track to be a career DC until Whit called him up and said hey you wanna be a HC because all the others we’ve reached out to said no. Appears he had no plan for hires, for building and managing a program, etc. Elko looks like the guy who has had his plan in place for years just waiting for the inevitable call. Pry looks like a guy not expecting this and had no plan or process in place he would follow and has been trying to make one up on the fly. I know it’s year one and maybe a miracle can happen next year, but I’ve seen nothing from this staff that inspires confidence in their ability to turn this around and get us back to winning the Coastal and competing for ACC titles. At this point Whit the Destroyer looks like he’s at risk of going 0-2 on football HC hires.

We are equally matched in abysmal play and feckless coaching so who knows, maybe it may actually be a good game to watch.

In over is head, along with his woefully inexperienced coordinators.

There was no need. He had the budget to bring in experienced, seasoned, high-quality staff — especially at OC and DC. Instead Pry raided the coaching pre-school and we are paying almost $1.7 Million a year just between the two of them alone — guys who are just six years removed from being GAs and wouldn’t be hired as coordinators anywhere else in all FBS, let alone P5. Hiring malfeasance in my opinion and has essentially crippled Pry’s program trajectory from the get go. Dumb of Pry and dumb of Whit. I’m most upset about this. Compare Elko’s staff vs ours, and although private I’m 100% sure Elko doesn’t have the assistant pool resources we have. Zero reason we couldn’t assemble a more qualified staff for the money. Head coaches live and die on the strength, quality, and experience of their assistants, especially their OC and DC. Yet, inexplicably Pry — himself a rookie HC — saddled himself with not just rookie coordinators, but coordinators who lack any level of experience commensurate with their salary. Organizationally — you never double down on inexperience. New leaders virtually never succeed if all their key subordinates are not only also complete rookies but colossally inexperienced as well. Idiotic, puzzling, program crippling decision. We shouldn’t be paying $1.7 Mil a year for coordinators to learn on the job as well as the HC. Maybe a seasoned, experienced, proven HC can afford to take a flyer on a coordinator who lacks experience. But for a rookie, unproven HC to take flyers on both an OC and DC is inexcusable.

Todays players are on average bigger, faster and/or stronger than they were back then. Our crowds are bigger and alumni always increases as the school grows. Enthusiasm among the alum is lower than anytime it’s been in the last 30 years. I’d be interested to see inflation-adjusted contributions per alumni now vs then. The important differentiators for programmatic success are talent and funding relative to others, and coaching. We lack clear talent advantages over other programs and in terms of coaching, our OC and DC have zero business being employed as coordinators anywhere in FBS, let alone P5. Pry may or may not be the guy but he has to bring on experienced, high-quality coordinators to maximize his and the team’s chance of success moving forward.

I don’t think our AD can or should survive multiple misses at hiring a football HC. I’ve always felt that Whit’s future is completely tied to Pry. If Pry fails, Whit will be gone as well. He may be good at being an Olympic sport AD but football is king. Whit also bears some responsibility for Pry’s completely inexperienced key staff such as the OC and DC. If Whit didn’t push back on Pry inexplicably wanting to bring on such inexperienced key staff then shame on Babcock for not understanding that you do the rookie coach zero favors by not saving him from himself if he wants to compound his own HC inexperience with yet more utter inexperience in his key staff positions. There’s not another program in all of FBS, let alone P5, that would have brought on Marve or Bowen as coordinators. None. For crying out loud they were GAs just 6 years ago. A rookie HC needs high quality, highly-experienced, seasoned coordinators around him to maximize success and allow the HC to learn his new role. Having a HC, OC, and DC all being rookies (with the coordinators being both rookies and massively inexperienced) and learning on the job simultaneously is bordering on organizational malpractice. Both Pry and Whit should know better. Alternatively if Whit did push back then it fell on deaf ears and speaks to Whit’s lack of power, persuasion or influence and is an even bigger indictment of Pry — the guy he chose — for not taking the advice and not recognizing the problem with compounding inexperience with even more inexperience. Either way if Pry fails it’s a reflection of Whit’s inability to advance the football program. The football program is undoubtedly worse off now than before Whit took over as AD, and worse than any time in my lifetime and I was here on campus as Beamer was starting. Pry has to turn this mess around soon — which in my opinion would require a massive change in how Pry views his role and oversees the program along with replacing all coordinators with coaches who possess the requisite experience, strength and quality. With each passing game and lack of progress, I’m increasingly doubting whether he is the right guy. I want him to succeed but both he and the coordinators seem way in over their heads. In my opinion if he sticks with the current staff then it won’t work out. If he makes changes and brings in better coordinators and takes a hard look at his own methods and processes then maybe there’s a chance — but the odds are not good of this happening. My worst fear early on when we got our football assistant pool bumped up would be that the new coach would be a rookie HC who massively overpaid for inexperienced staff and coordinators. Don’t spend the money just because you have it unless it’s for coaches whose resumes are worth it. Certainly in terms of OC and DC we are way overpaying relative to any strength or experience they bring to the table. From where I sit it’s looking like Pry and Whit have bungled this all to hell. ** Edited by Exit37 at 11/5/2022, 7:28:53 PM

Come on guys — close this out and deliver a W

** Edited by Exit37 at 11/5/2022, 12:56:40 PM

This was back in 2005-2010 so don't know if that is still an option but was zero cost back then to park in parking lot and we would just trek to game across campus with all the others who parked there.

You don't compound HC inexperience by doubling down on inexperience at the all-too-important OC and DC positions. Pry may or may not be our head guy, but organizationally (regardless of industry), it is never good to bring on an inexperienced rookie leader and surround that new rookie leader with inexperienced rookie key staff. Whit should have pushed back against this move and Pry should have never have done this to begin with and understood that such a move would make his life substantially more difficult and impact the chances of team success. Maybe they can all learn on the job and succeed, but they shouldn't have to. Head coaches live or die by the quality, strength, and experience of their assistants, especially the key coordinators. Elko did it the right way and assembled a very strong, high-quality, highly-experienced and seasoned staff, especially at OC and DC. Pry did not.

I don’t know of a mass wave of excitement over Pry’s coordinator hires. I got the impression that despite Pry likely not being Whit’s first choice fans seemed to like the guy and were excited for him. For him, not his coordinator hires. He surrounded himself with inexperience at the important coordinator positions. That doesn’t inspire much confidence in many, but most fans probably thought — well if Pry thinks they are up to the task then I’ll trust him. At best I imagine many fans were ambivalent about the coordinators but the product on the field is revealing issues that certainly aren’t helped by coordinator inexperience. I want Pry to succeed big time — but a rookie HC chances of success are better when the rookie HC surrounds himself with experienced coordinators. Head coaches largely live or die based on the strength and quality of their assistant coaching staff. I’m concerned Pry made his life more difficult by lacking experience and strength among key coordinators.

It’s fun to imagine the media coverage and interest from HS kids his presence would create. I definitely think our recruiting would improve and I doubt he would bring along coordinators that are as ill-suited and inept as Bowen and company. But if there is interest in him from other P5 schools I doubt VT would look as appealing compared to him versus many other interested programs and locations. I think Deion would be better than our current group based on what I’ve seen this season but whether he would be interested, whether he would stay long, and whether such a thing would even be financially possible are all entirely other considerations that likely make this just a thought exercise. But the larger point is that this current coaching staff hasn’t shown me anything, other than they are all in over their heads. At the very least our current OC and ST coordinators need to be shown the door that they should never have been allowed to enter through in the first place. Terrible hires. The quickest way to accelerate failure is to compound inexperience with more inexperience. Which is exactly what our staff looks like. Successful rookie head coaches don’t hire all rookie coordinators, especially when those coordinators lack any meaningful tenure or experience at all and none at the position they are being hired into. Pry and Whit near the blame for those staffing whiffs.