Virginia Tech wide receiver Stephen Gosnell took a few shots against Wake Forest on Saturday, but the officials didn't throw a flag. (Ivan Morozov)
Alright, fun’s over. You guys let me wax poetic for 3000 words about game control and crew credibility. Now it’s time to get into a few more plays from Saturday. I will say (spoiler alert), a few of these calls weren’t great — and that may be generous. That really highlights just how important keeping control of the game is for an officiating crew.
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“We can only title these “Ask a Back Judge” if they include a pass interference play. Otherwise, it’s just striped film review.” - Nice ?
TechHokie13
Thank you, I was prouder of that one than I have any right to be ?
BGHokie13
Watching AL v TN. Why do the rules allow the QB to slap his hands together (and generally in a dramatic fashion) but if the defense does it they get called for “disconcerting signals”?
TechHokie13
I love this question. Honestly, it drives me a bit nuts what the offense can get away with vs. what flies for the defense. In my opinion, we're a lot better about calling this sort of stuff on the offense at the high school level - especially if the QB is doing something more excessive than his usual cadence.
RhinoVT
What do the officials do at halftime? Do they have a strategy talk like the teams, fire up a coke and cigarette like Len Dawson in the Super Bowl, tequila shots, or just rest and re-hydrate?
TechHokie13
Thanks for the chuckle. I'm sure a cold beverage and a cig weren't off the table back in the day ?.
These days, it's probably pretty similar to the players' halftime: we'll rest (usually get off our feet as much as possible), maybe stretch out anything tight, rehydrate, and discuss how we think the first half is going. We really don't have much time during the flow of the game for anything beyond brief exchanges over the radio - we have a full slate of dead-ball responsibilities, and things to do after scores and between quarters and such. So at halftime we'll make sure everyone's on the same page and aware of anything that's currently or might become an issue. Then, we make sure our teams are on the field on time, and get ourselves warmed up and ready to go for the 2nd half.
Hokie67
Great article - as always.
In summary - the officiating crew just had a bad day. Maybe as bad as I've seen in a while. I should have written each one as they happened at the game - and watched the replay as I was watching the replay on Sunday a.m. The calls I remembered all seemed to be shown as I saw them.
What happens when the ACC reviews each of the games from an officiating standpoint. Also - do most teams submit a report to the ACC after the game? And what happens? .
TechHokie13
Eh, more like a bad half. I'm not sure any of the misses I went over occurred after halftime.
As far as reviews, two things happen: first, the ACC reviews every play of each game - this will be done by an evaluator selected by the head of officiating. That evaluator will score each official - pretty similar to the PFF grades that Chris talks about each week - and those scores will be used to, for example, determine who works which bowl games at the end of the year and such. If the ACC believes an official or a crew *really* screwed the pooch, they may suspend the offender(s) for a game (or more, depending on the issue). The crew itself will also review game tape and the evaluator's report to see where they can improve as individuals and a crew.
Externally, coaches/schools can submit specific plays to the ACC to ask for clarification. The answer they'll get is pretty much limited to, "yes, that was correct. You can expect that to be called that way going forward" or, "that call was incorrect, and should be handled [this way] according to how ACC officials operate."
I don't think I've ever seen the ACC reverse an on-field decision (maybe a suspension in the case of an incorrectly identified player on a flagrant foul or something) due to an officiating mistake. The example that jumps to mind is that Miami/Duke game from a few years ago, which Miami *should* have lost, but their game-ending kick return TD was allowed to stand.
Hokie67
THANKS!
Your commentary is a big contribution that makes TSL a GREAT site. Even better is that you actually respond to comments and questions.
Thanks again.
TechHokie13
Thanks so much! I'm quite happy Will and the TSL crew decided this was a good idea ?
GO_HOKIES_GO
The PI call on Canteen was right in front of me and in real-time I thought it was offensive PI - the fact that this genius called it defensive PI is UFB. I am fine with no-call since there is contact from both players, but the aggressor at the end of the play was the receiver.
TechHokie13
That's what I find most interesting here: I really can't tell who's the "aggressor" overall. As far as I can tell, that's just two players handfighting down the sideline and then playing the ball, neither really initiates the contact. I think I'd be as skeptical of an OPI call as I currently am of the DPI one.
FaceMask
On Lane's TD catch, it really looks like Meadows grabs the defender's facemask and puts him in the turf with it on the twist/spin move. I suppose the no call is a good trade off for the phantom facemask earlier.
TechHokie13
It's hard to tell from the angles provided, but to my eye, I'd say it's more likely Meadows has him around the shoulders. It's definitely something an official (probably the C or R by that point) should be on top of. Even if it's no longer point-of-attack for a holding call, a 15-yarder for a safety foul is absolutely still on the table.
Hokies81
I'm interested in your take on the illegal snap call against Brody at 7:43 in the 2nd qtr. I've watched it a few times and don't see anything. What am I missing?
TechHokie13
Alas, that video didn't quite make it, but I did check it out (I was curious, because I definitely missed it live too). It's *very* subtle, but it's the right call. Moore shifts the ball probably all of 2 inches, but it's straight back. If he had rotated it, or shifted it laterally the same amount, the U probably lets it slide. But straight back like that looks identical to the snap (even if the defense doesn't bite), so the U has to call it.
blockh
The 2nd punt was the one that should’ve been PF/unsportsmanlike on WF#1. Clip doesn’t show all that the Pry and the crowd saw occur.
TechHokie13
The shove alone should have done it for a 15-yarder. Unfortunately, there was never a camera angle or replay that showed anything after that.
blockh
BTW, as a former coach (at a lower level?), I really appreciate your review articles!
TechHokie13
Thanks! Glad you enjoy them
IV_Hokie12
As far as the flex I don't think either Delane's or Wake's flex draws the flag on its own. I think Delane "high fiving" (slapping the hand away?) pushes it over the edge. I don't have a problem with either call.
TechHokie13
From what I could tell, the flag was already on its way when Delane smacked the receiver's hand away, but if it wasn't that "high five" *definitely* would have done it ?
ShockWaveVT
I gotta dispute what you call hand fighting between WF#1 and Beck (VT#14)... 90% of that contact is WF#1 grabbing VT#14's arm & shoulder to slow him down and then VT#14 pushing back to try and get free from the grabbing. Net result: VT#14 is slowed down by WF#1 grabbing and pulling... ya know.. holding.
It happens on all three plays and just because it "didn't really impede his progress down the field" doesn't mean it should go uncalled. Because eventually the holding is going to have an impact when VT#14 is two steps late arriving at the catch point, and the return man takes off and gains yardage instead of fair catching. But its hard to rewind mentally and throw a flag only after a penalty has a delayed effect.
In clip three there is no fair catch, and the holding is finally called, so maybe the officials were monitoring fair catch status the earlier non-calls. Or maybe they just thought WF#1 pulled VT#14 to the ground (he was actually collapsing to the ground in pain due to the injury caused by WF#1 grabbing and holding earlier in the play)
Either way VT#14 was definitely held on clip 3 - just look at 0:03- starting around the 35 yard line - WF#1 is beat and is grabbing VT#14 to slow him down for a solid 10+ yards, allowing the return man to skip the fair catch.
TechHokie13
I'm going to push back a bit on that first sentence of your second paragraph: a grab, or even a substantial restriction, does not necessarily mean a foul has occurred. In fact, going back to my holding/ODU article, a grab not impeding a player's progress down the field absolutely means that it should not be called. It's a huge component of a consistent holding philosophy.
Yes, it *could* have an impact 40 yards down the field, but that's not how we as officials approach that kind of action. We make a judgment call based on whether we think that restriction is impacting the play, and when the ball is that far away, it needs to be a very big restriction to fit that criteria.
Play #3 is easily the most suspect (and obviously the hold was called), but I still see Beck in a position to pull away pretty easily if he doesn't get hurt. In my judgment, Beck slows down, not because of the restriction by 1, but because of the pain in his arm/shoulder (which was clearly a pre-existing injury due to the shoulder brace - that type of grab should never injur an otherwise healthy player like that).
ShockWaveVT
I understand and that is a point of contention I have with the philosophy of most officials regarding holding. If the ball isn't within 10 feet there's no call, no matter the player's role or abilities. And I can understand a hold on the opposite side of the field, on a DT by an OG, behind the action by 20 yards not drawing a foul.
But Beck is a punt coverage gunner, his job is to run downfield and get close to the return man and force a fair catch, or be in position to make a tackle. He's got to cover 40+ yards as fast as possible, and holding him at the line of scrimmage, or 20 yards from the catch point.. has a just as detrimental impact on his ability to do that as if he were held when the ball carrier passed by 2 yards away.
By rule Beck is supposed to be free to run down the field if he gets around his blocker. He legit beats his man and got position by virtue of his speed and technique. Then the blocker grabs him from behind and slows him down. (In this case also injuring him by yanking his arm so hard.)
If the blocker wants to impede the gunner's progress, that he's supposed to get in front of him and block... Not grab him from behind.
TechHokie13
Every word you wrote there is 100% correct, and I'll say holding is easily one of - if not THE - most controversial foul we do/don't call, even among officials.
There's a reason we spend so much time in film review/training, and it's to make sure we're as consistent as possible with these kinds of calls.
Also keep in mind, this is just one official's judgment. All 3 plays above, you could easily have a different official go the other way. Shoot, for all I know, the deep wing pulled 1 aside after one of the earlier punts and told him, "I saw that. If there isn't such a quick fair catch signal on the next one, you're getting flagged for a hold. Gotta let the gunner go if he beats you like that." That obliterates any benefit of the doubt 1 would get on a later call.
teaysvalleyhokie
Since Cole Nelson got about 8 nicknames, I was hoping Cole "Chuck Norris" Beck would get a few too.
hokiepro
Also you didn’t answer the last question: he was asking about our DEs being held often with obvious jersey tugs. Pollard had his jersey completely pulled away from his body on a relatively long WF pass completion
He wasn’t asking about our OL being held
TechHokie13
Alas, I had to call it and get back to real life at *some* point. I'd say the assessment would be similar to the other holding plays: the covering official (or viewer, in this case) would have to decide if it met the 3 criteria for a hold that I've laid out before. If so and it wasn't flagged, that's a miss. If not, then it's a good no-call.
ShockWaveVT
What were those 3 criteria again?
VTScanlo
They’re listed in the next to last paragraph of this article.
ShockWaveVT
Yeah, that was a nice breakdown of how WF#30 wasn't holding - and a good illustration of what their DL might do to keep an OL from releasing to the 2nd level. Ultimately I don't think Chaplin was going to try and release to the LB's but the DE made sure of it
... but the question was about VT's DL blatantly being held by WF's OL fairly obviously to the layperson and yet no calls being made.
TomTurkey
Another good article.
TechHokie13
Thanks!
hokiepro
Apparently you missed the hold on the play you said “nada” vs Beck. Slow it down at :03 in the video and watch as Beck had separated at the 40, the WF player reaches out and grabs the inside of Beck’s left shoulder pad, between the 35 and 30, #1 YANKS down on him (yes it was a previously injured shoulder). It’s after that yank downward that Beck seems to crumple. The ref made the correct call of holding on that play. IMO the extra shove was to a defenseless player who was already hurt
TechHokie13
To be clear, I was referring to a potential personal foul. I had a comment about the hold that must've gotten lost in the edit (gimme a break, it was a lot to review ?). I still see Beck going down mostly on his own. The "yank" that pops out on film would have been the same level of handfighting that was let slide all game, and again was mostly due to Beck doubling over in pain.
If the shove occurred on the other side of the field from the ball, I might be inclined to flag it. Where it happened though, it was a perfectly legitimate football play.
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