Bhayshul Tuten got away with this spike. (Jon Fleming)
Well, that was a lot more fun than the previous few weeks. I’m anticipating that, much like when I’m on the field, this is going to be a much different experience explaining calls and mechanics coming off a win than off a loss. But I’m sure the comments section will do its best to prove me wrong. Lay it on me, Hokies.
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The addition of your pieces on officiating has been a great addition to TSL’s content! Very informative and written in an entertaining manner. Thanks, Tristan, for providing perspective on an aspect of the game that most of us have no actual experience with.
TechHokie13
Thanks so much, glad you've enjoyed it so far!
If I was a Hokie
This is a great article. It sure helps understanding play for those of us not in the action. Thanks.
TechHokie13
That's the goal, thanks for reading!
133600Hokie
Love your comments and how you explain what the officials should be looking for and how they should be positioned to make calls. Very educational.
TechHokie13
Thanks for reading, glad you found it insightful!
jackofalltrades
Another possible explanation could be that he called holding on guys now and just said the wrong thing when announcing it. To me it looks like gosnell did commit a little bit of a hold there. The defender overmatched him and shoved him back, and he pulled the defender with him as he went back, which was away from the ball carrier, so I think a hold call would be legit.
TechHokie13
I rwally like the thought process here, but I'd actually be much more concerned with this crew if that was the case. For an R to announce a personal foul and then the U *and* HL only march off 10 yards (ooh, I should do a piece on how penalties are assessed, that might be useful), that'd be a pretty major screwup. Someone else on the crew should have piped up on their radio and asked the R to clarify or correct the call.
A *major* component of officiating is that we fail or succeed together, as a crew. Ensuring things like the clock is right, the down is correct, and penalties are enforced correctly is the responsibility of every single crew member, not just the R.
Given we can't see the whole play, I'm going to stick with my conclusion that something happened a but further downfield. Nothing I've seen from the ACC all year, or from that crew in this game, leads me to believe such a major lapse would go unnoticed.
ShockWaveVT
first, I'll point out the most blatant block in the back that not only the officials on the field missed, but the official watching the tape and writing up a critique also missed. It's OK we're all looking at Lawson (#21) getting blown up.
But pause the video at 00:24 then let it play a couple of seconds. Tisdale (#34) is enters the frame from the left, being blocked in the back by Pitt #58 (their Center). Tisdale attempts to turn back to his left as the runner cuts inside this block-in-the-back, so the block is finished from the side. But the initial contact is directly into Tindale's back. Foul.
second - the potential foul on Mumpfield #9 occurred out of frame from the end zone angle. Watching the sideline angle, at 00:13 you see the contact from #9 into Strong (#44) from behind. Unfortunately the contact occurred just outside the #'s which was out of frame from the end zone view, and it's tough to assess the impact on the play from such a wide sideline angle. IMO the contact caused Strong to lose his balance and miss the tackle. When it comes down to forcing a missed tackle, that is a foul that should be called IMO.
finally - I concur that Pitt #68's block on Lawson (#21) was legal and from the side.
TechHokie13
You guys are always more than welcome to disagree, and I'll never be remotely upset for someone being able to clearly articulate why they think a foul was or was not committed. All I can do is tell you what the on-field officials are likely seeing/judging at game speed.
No matter how you slice it, I just don't see enough for a flag on any of the 3 blocks. The way I'd tell it to a coach who had similar criticisms is along the lines of, "yeah, I *could* call that, but then I'd also have to call a whole lot of other things that you probably don't want me to call, and we're gonna be here all night."
Austin Gobbler
I should have asked this question for consideration in this week's article, but I failed to do so. What is the NCAA rule for intentional grounding? I thought that as long as the QB was outside the tackle box and threw a pass beyond the line-of-scrimmage and out-of-bounds, that this was legal, and not considered intentional grounding. However, in VT's game against Pitt, Drones was called for intentional grounding. The TV broadcast never replayed the play nor did they expalin it.
ShockWaveVT
IIRC Drones was still in the pocket and there was no receiver anywhere near where the ball went.
not close to being a borderline call.
similar to the play in the KC @ Jets game where the Jets QB launched the ball downfield with a blitzer in his face, expecting Brown to run a post route. Instead Brown ran a hitch and was 20+ yards away from where the ball landed. Intentional grounding.
ShockWaveVT
*meant to add, it was intentional grounding because the QB was under pressure. From a clean pocket it would have just been incomplete.
Drones had to move due to pressure and was getting rid of the ball to avoid being sacked. Throwing to nobody while under pressure in the pocket = intentional grounding
TechHokie13
ShockWaveVT has it right, Drones was in the tackle box. It's a bit tricky to nail down precisely where that is as the play develops, because your reference points (the two tackles) tend to move quite a bit.
The rule though, is that the QB has to be outside the tackle box and get the ball back to the neutral zone (it still counts if the ball crosses the line out of bounds). Also, the instant the ball leaves the tackle box, said box disintegrates, so a QB can roll out to one side, come back to the middle, and legally ground the ball.
Seikoh_04
Side note, I thought this was a pretty good crew to be covering two bad teams. How are crews selected week to week?
TechHokie13
The short answer is the conference's head of officiating assigns the crews each week (probably in batches of a few weeks at a time). Other than that, I'm not sure on specifics, as I've never been an assigner. I just go where I'm told.
RhinoVT
I asked on the board, too, but are you always a back judge or do officials get to "play" other positions in different games?
TechHokie13
Great question! It depends on the association/league, as well as the official. I've worked almost exclusively as a deep wing or BJ for the past 6 seasons or so.
Really, most of us typically have the flexibility to pick the position we like most/are most comfortable in (the exception being R - scheduling a referee is not done lightly). There are definitely plenty of officials who like to be free agents and work all over, just to mix it up a bit.
For me, I'll occasionally work as a short wing if we're down some people, and I also have to be fairly comfortable at U in case our umpire goes down mid-game (it's easiest to move the BJ up 15 yards than to reshuffle the rest of the crew).
RhinoVT
Thanks! Interesting stuff.
hokiepro
Agree on Lawson block being legal. Block on Strong not so much. Yes he slowed vs the juke but got hit right in the back
TechHokie13
I'm just not seeing enough of a push to call it a foul. Like, zero push. Strong dives at the runner's feet all on his own. He actually would have had a better shot at making the tackle if he had gotten a shove from behind, imo.
This is one where a bit of experience calling these types of plays really helps - to my eye, it's quite clear when a player is moving on his own, or being moved by another player. In this case, Strong is going precisely where he intends to, it's just a last-ditch dive at a RB's feet.
icelus
I believe offensive tripping is a 10 yard penalty, referee just didn’t have the angle.
TechHokie13
From the rule book:
Rule 9, Section 1: "All fouls in this section are personal fouls (unless noted)... Except as otherwise noted, the penalties for all personal fouls are as follows:
PENALTY - Personal Foul. 15 yards."
Article 2 (the bit on tripping specifically) does not note an exception, so by rule, it's a 15-yarder. Foul had to occur (or be called) 5 yards beyond the LoS for the resulting down to be 1st and 20.
icelus
Did they change the rule recently on this? I remember it was a 10-yard penalty before....
icelus
I found for NFL, they changed tripping from a 10-yard penalty to a personal foul, and 15-yard penalty starting in 2023. I can't find anything for college football.
TechHokie13
If they changed the college rule, it wasn't in the last 15 years or so.
icelus
ok, thanks. I must have remembered wrong between NFL and college football.
TechHokie13
You have no idea how common that is - players, fans, coaches, and officials alike!
Working with experienced college officials can actually be a bit frustrating for high school crews, as they're probably the ones most likely to get mixed up.
jrt3
On the block in the back clip Tisdale was clearly blocked right in the middle of his back by #58 just as he was about to make the tackle.
TechHokie13
For the block on Tisdale (I stand corrected, THREE suspicious blocks!), I'd say it's close, but my judgement is there's no advantage is gained here, as Tisdale has already overrun the play by the time he's contacted. He goes where he wants to go - around the OL trying to block him - and that's primarily what takes him out of the play. You could argue the OL is in "chase mode" and makes contact with the defenders back for a foul, but I'd be iffy on that one at best.
Bruin2Hokie
Tisdale beats the OL#58 to the spot to make the play and gets pushed hard enough square in his back to end up on his butt and if that doesn't draw a flag then blocks in the back shouldn't be in the penalty book...
ShockWaveVT
Tisdale got in position to slow down and square up on the runner but is pushed past his spot by the block in the back, putting him out of position and giving the runner a lane to the inside.
Clear foul at the point of attack.
not sure what "chase mode" means but the OL definitely chases him toward the sideline after Tisdale beats his initial angle.
IB4TECH
Tristan, you're taking some of the fun out of the game for some of us. ; )
TechHokie13
I know, I'm the absolute worst. Here I am depriving good, honest sports fans of the time-honored tradition of yelling at the refs. ?
One of these days we'll get a good old-fashioned screw-up from the stripes (and we'll go to town on it when it happens, I primise you), but so far it just hasn't happened yet, as far as I can tell.
hokiepro
It’s not his fault the rules are stupid (spiking) or written without common sense
FF Hokie
Neat concept for articles, but sometimes it seems like when they go to the retired official in the booth who almost never disagrees with the call on the field imo.
TechHokie13
Believe me, I'm conscious of it ?
There have been several times so far this season I've gone into a review expecting to heavily criticize a call, only to determine after a bettee look at a different angle, or a closer look at the wording of a given rule, that the officials on the field did indeed get it right (or, in the case of those sideline calls, there's a reasonable judgement involved).
Fact of the matter is that ACC officials have been pretty good this year, at least when it comes to Tech games. I will absolutely let you guys know when I see that change, but so far, so good.
And hey, I even nitpicked some mechanics this week! ?
FF Hokie
Very true. Maybe my issue is more with some of the rules than the officials.
TechHokie13
Yes, please, gripe at will at the NCAA Rules Committee. ?
39 Comments